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I finally got around to playing some vinyl with the Soundsmith retipped Benz Glider S. I hope to play some more tonight.
I'm loving the Soundsmith retipped Glider S with "RUBY "Single Crystal" cantilever which holds a Nude "Optimized Contour" Contact Line Diamond". It sounds wonderful but I'm curious to know if there's a correct Stylus Rake Angle I should be shooting for. As a matter of fact, I don't know if I had it right on the original Benz cantilever / stylus.
If you look at this cartridge and the angle at which the lengthy cantilever protrudes out from it, then place the stylus down in the record groove, it's no where near 90 or 92 degrees. I had a quick closeup view with my jewelers loupe. I lowered the back of the tonearm as far as it can go and even with a "thick" 200-g record, the stylus appears to be in the groove at a much larger angle than 92 degrees. It's noticeably "slanted" in the groove probably close to 110 to 120-degrees.
First of all, is 92-degrees the ideal norm for ALL stylus? Second, I don't know how I can possibly achieve this angle with my setup. And thirdly, I don't think the stock Glider S was anywhere near 92-degrees. I would have to place a spacer or wedge toward the back end of Glider between the headshell and the cartridge to get the back end lower than the front in order to get the SRA closer to 92-degrees. It's more like 110 to 120 degrees right now.
Has anyone checked the SRA on their Gliders? I'd be curious know what it looks like.
Is 92-degrees approximately ideal for ALL stylus? I recall seeing some close up photos with angle markings posted by John Elison.
I have no complaints about how the retipped Glider sounds but I'm wondering if the larger SRA angle is normal here.
Follow Ups:
Maybe i can help because i thought about a bad SRA too.
But the correct measured edge is this
I think somewhere on the Soundsmith site says SRA with his retip is correct when the top of the cartrige is level.
Brad
If so, get out Linda Rondstat's Simple Dreams album. Cue up Blue Bayou and adjust it from tail low to tail high. She is practically at full recording console value so this is one of my acid tests for sibilance.
When you can get her voice sounding like a whisper when she is leading you along and sounds grounded and full when she is at full glory then you know the SRA is perfect.
If you are out even a little bit she is going to screach.
Peter does a nice job! I am glad you went for the full meal deal.
Hope the surgery went ok?
"Help support our school's Music programs"
"Is 92-degrees approximately ideal for ALL stylus? "
Yes, but you are being confused. The stylus is not cut like most.
The image above should make it all clear to you. This is the Nude "Optimized Contour" Contact Line Diamond from SoundSmith. I added the green line to show the angle.
The next image shows the "normal" cut vs. the SoundSmith cut.
The SoundSmith stylus is like the one on the bottom.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
God Bless You, Tre....
Peter Ledermann/Soundsmith
nt
Yes, I was confused! Your pictures and diagrams along with your explanation set me straight.
I hadn't considered the stylus cut. I thought my SRA was way way off but it's probably within reason.
I'm not sure if I can see that level of detail through my jewelers loupe but I'll have another look just for grins. Whew!
Thanks!
A loupe is not going to help due to the angularity of the loupe to the subject.
I like to use a test album to set up SRA. I use Linda Rondstat's Simple Dreams "Blue Bayou" or Amanda McBroom's "The Rose" for these chores. Dial in the SRA and then things really lock into place.
Unfortunately when it comes to motor geometry cartridges are built +/- value. So a scope might be necessary to know you've dialed it in successfully. For me, I trust my ears. Play with the VTA and the azimuth to get the sonics right.
Its well worth the little bit of effort. Its good therapy if they want you moving around at this point in your recovery.
Cheers!
"Help support our school's Music programs"
I don't have that Rondstat album, maybe I should get it. I have some Norah Jones (yeah I know!) and I know how she is supposed to sound. I'll fiddle with the VTA to see if I can dial it in just so. I'm using the SL1200mk2.
Tre' set me straight on the SRA. I understand that I should set it by ear but I feel better in knowing that my stylus SRA is not completely wrong. Until it was explained to me, with pictures and diagrams, I had no idea why it appeared so far off.
This may sound like its tough to do right but its not at all that difficult.
If your speakers are set up properly you should hear a solo vocalist in the center of the sound stage with instruments right and left and front and back.
If you are not there, then use my Iron Chef speaker set up protocol to dial in your speakers to your room. Its the best way to set up speakers I have found in 35 years in this hobby. Its not my process. Its what John Hunter from Sumiko uses to set up $50,000 dollar speakers when they go out for review. Enough said.
Once the speakers are right then VTA/SRA is actually a great deal of fun when you have VTA on the fly.
Start off with the tail way down and then go up until you hear the vocals come clear. You will hear this very clearly.
If you start level then you might miss this. Who knows if the sweet spot is a little up or down.
When you are too far down the bass will be plentiful but muddy. The midbass will be playing away buy you might not hear any midbass growl.
As you move up you will hear the bass change as much as the vocals. That's why Blue Bayou can be such a great test album to set up your VTA. Linda goes from quiet to full tilt all within a couple of minutes. The stylus will either track it or it will cloud it up.
If you have a favorite female vocalist with certain song that goes from quiet to loud then you can substitute this track. It helps when you know the tune really well.
VTA on the fly is the best! I am glad you have it for this set up. Just remember the angle of the tail when you are done. You can replicate this with a non-VTA table in the future if you know where to start.
For those reading without VTA on the fly, I like Pete's recommendation of the playing deck cards or even business cards. Using cards makes testing and dialing in a lot less troublesome.
Cheers!
"Help support our school's Music programs"
Parallel to the platter (for starters) and you should be real close. Leave it there for awhile while it breaks in unless it sounds really bad which I doubt. Then you may want to experiment with MINOR moves up or down.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Since I can't precisely "see" the SRA at the edge of the stylus cut anyway and it all comes down to how it sounds, I'll put the tonearm back to parallel and start from there.
The retipped cartridge is sounding pretty nice but has fewer than 10 hours on it. I'll play more records before getting all critical and precise on the VTA/SRA by ear. ;-)
Howdy Abe,
SRA/VTA is more critical with the exotic stylus profiles (like you have now). It's absolutely worth farting around with VTA/SRA by ear - there will be a sweet spot where all hell breaks loose. 8-)
I use a deck of playing cards to set my VTA repeatably (having an old school tone arm without a micro-adjustable VTA function). One card plus or minus can make or break the response of an exotic stylus.
Good luck,
Pete
....I'll pay close attention to the VTA by ear once I have a few more hours on the stylus. VTA is pretty easy to adjust by turning a collar on the Technics SL1200mk2
I'm glad I could help.
Enjoy.....Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
My stock Glider has a similar appearance. The arm is slightly (8mm) up in the back. I use a Charles Mingus tune that has a snare drum being brushed at the end. With the arm too low, you can't tell what the sound is, but as the back of the arm comes up, one can determine the drum head being brushed. You can see that to get the stylus LOOKING like approx. 90 degrees, one would have an impossibly low angle to the arm. Check out the thread I started about my stock Glider S.
Edits: 09/07/10
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