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In Reply to: RE: How do Lingo I and Lingo II compare? posted by KIS on November 21, 2008 at 16:40:59
The so-called "Andy Weekes Tweak" to remove the input filter which, AIUI, injects hash back into the mains, is basically the only improvement the first-model L2 has over the L1.
However, if you plug the L1 into a different power circuit to that which your hifi components are plugged into, you remove this problem of HF hash! :-))
I've been contemplating a move away from my L1 for about 5 years now - so I've kept a close eye on these Forums. My reading of it is that current (say, last year or so) L2s are better than the first incarnation L2s.
So, unfortunately, I still have to budget in for a 'modern" L2, at some stage! :-((
Regards,
Andy
Follow Ups:
Even if you plug the Lingo I without the mod into another circuit, it still sounds worst than without the mod.
How do I know? Because I did that before the Andy Weekes tweak.
I now use balance supply for all my gear including the modded Lingo I. The Lingo I further improved with the balanced supply.
The Lingo II according to Linn is the same circuit as the Lingo I except that they are surface mount. What does surface mount do? No one actually knows.
I also have inside information from a Linn Dealer "friend" (obviously he does not want to be identified) that advised me to keep my Lingo I and invest elsewhere as the difference he heard between a modded Lingo I and the Lingo II is zilch (in his opinion).
Too much said already. I still don't understand why a person of your hifi ideals has not done the Andy Weekes tweak which is as simple as wiring a wall plug. Perhaps you are still afraid of losing a few dollars on your Lingo I because it has been modified.
I've got both modded Lingo I (Nov.'90) and brand new Lingo II ( Aug. '08 )
I did AB them at the dealer but I decided to see how it is in my own rig.
You are right about even when I plugged in a stock Lingo II on a separate cct. its fault did not go away. Actually, to my ears, it was worse than plugged into the same main.
However, the original poster's observation of the Lingo II is pretty spot on. It does have a lower noise floor, blacker backgrounds with a better note decay. And brings out more midrange. A perceived sense of flow and pacing of the music are improved over the modded Lingo I. The Lingo 2 sounds more refined and sophisticated comparatively.
What I am struggling with, in my system, is that timing is somewhat messed up. I no longer have the bass groove I get from the Lingo I. The note delivery is not exactly precise albeit it added more air on top.
I have to disagree with your Linn dealer that there is no difference between the two. There was clearly an audible difference to my ears. At the dealer, even a non Linnie friend noticed it straight away.
Peeking inside of both units, it looks to be like a basic circuit hasn't changed. But with many components/parts changes inside and outside, I'd expect them to sound different. Rather, I'd think that it's impossible to sound exactly the same. Altho essentially, they both still sound like a Linn component.
Regarding the modding an old Lingo, ( mine is a '90 vintage ), depends on the age, taking out the filter is a real royal pain in the arse. They were actually encased in epoxy and it had to be slowly chipped away so that wiring won't be messed up. Neat and clean job is harder to do than I ever imagined. I was told that newer models are easier.
I thought that the modification was only relevant to those who run Naim amps.
I am not giving up on a Lingo II yet and see what happens when I put in a PowerLine. Failing that, I might have to remove the filter again.
The improvements that the Lingo 2 brought was valid so it might worth a shot.
But as it stands, my filter-less Lingo I went back in service for now.
Here are two lingos.
Lingo I ( circa '90 )
Lingo 2 (2008)
"I have to disagree with your Linn dealer that there is no difference between the two."
To be exact, he said that: "There is some pluses and minuses between the two, but If I was given a choice between the Lingo I (modded) and Lingo II, I would go with Lingo I."
I was just being short with my earlier answer.
"I am not giving up on a Lingo II yet and see what happens when I put in a PowerLine. Failing that, I might have to remove the filter again."
I am not sure about this, but my Dealer friend told me that there is no filter in the Lingo II - so can not improve on it.
Finally if any Linn product can not produce a bass groove well, then it is not "really" a Linn sound, despite better "lower noise floor, blacker backgrounds with a better note decay."
I won't be in a hurry to sell your Lingo I if I were you.
*To be exact, he said that: "There is some pluses and minuses between the two, but If I was given a choice between the Lingo I (modded) and Lingo II, I would go with Lingo I."I was just being short with my earlier answer.*
That's different from what you wrote which was misleading.
( 'I also have inside information from a Linn Dealer "friend" (obviously he does not want to be identified) that advised me to keep my Lingo I and invest elsewhere as the difference he heard between a modded Lingo I and the Lingo II is zilch (in his opinion)." )*Finally if any Linn product can not produce a bass groove well, then it is not "really" a Linn sound, despite better "lower noise floor, blacker backgrounds with a better note decay."*
If you could have both, that's even better.
But as it stands, I prefer the modded Lingo I plugged into the same main in spite it lacks the round earthy traits.
Edits: 11/22/08
To improve the sound of the Lingo, try putting two bricks to weigh it down.
Try it.
Mine goes into a PS Audio wall socket, the early model. I'm waiting to install a Soloist In-Wall Power Conditioner next month.
M~
I had understood from various PFM posts that while the early L2 was exactly just a L1 with surface-mount components, they then changed the circuit (in the last couple of years) and improved on it?" Perhaps you are still afraid of losing a few dollars on your Lingo I because it has been modified " ... haha - exactly! :-)) But after your post, I'll think more on it! :-))
Can you tell me how how you engineered a balanced supply for your L1? Sounds very interesting.
Regards,
Andy
Edits: 11/21/08
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=vinyl&n=511850&highlight=power+KIS&r=
I use 2 1kW step downs for every piece of gear. 6 pairs in all for my system.
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