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Rob's room 3

121.219.238.22

rpoort@bigpond.net.au

My final picture.
My thought(option) is to move the speaker to the wall where the equipment sits. Move cd and lp rack.

And fire the speakers down the length of the room, the photo will show what will be behind the listening seat.
Now i realise room treatment is a must, i will add that after working out the best way to set up the room.

Thank's so much in advance for any advice.

Regards Rob.

Follow Ups:

RE: Rob's room 3 - Ethan Winer 09:30:19 06/26/08 (8)
I'm sure your speakers are not too big, but the setup could be improved. Symmetry is very important, and having a larger distance to the wall behind you is important too. Openings are good, especially in the rear. This article will probably help you further:

How to set up a room

Note the importance of absorption at the side-wall (and ceiling) reflection points. This means you should not things like have CD shelves along those parts of the walls.

--Ethan
- RE: Rob's room 3 - rpoort@bigpond.net.au 19:58:19 06/26/08 (7)
  Thanks Ethan,
  
  So you feel having the two large openings behind the listening seat would be a better option?
  
  Turning the speakers-listening postition around 90 degrees so to speak.
  
  I should of also mentioned the room has pitched roof, so i guess some sort of treatment on the roof would also help with reflections
  
  Cheers Rob
  - RE: Rob's room 3 - David Aiken 20:07:43 06/26/08 (6)
    I'll go with Ethan on the openings at the back, also on symmetry which is basic to any good setup. You can work with an asymmetrical room and get good results, something I've been forced to do in my room, but it does make things harder.
    
    If you're lucky and those openings are in the centre of the wall you may even find that they eliminate the first reflections from that wall because the first reflection points fall where the wall would be if there wasn't the openings. The additional spaces also create some longer dimensions for some additional, lower frequency room modes which is actually a plus since it helps the room response to smooth out at a lower frequency. The downside is that it takes more power to load the larger space but your speakers are sensitive and that's also a plus in your situation.
    
    David Aiken
    - RE: Rob's room 3 - rpoort@bigpond.net.au 20:52:22 06/26/08 (5)
      Thanks also David,
      
      Excuse my stupidity, but by symmetry do you mean having speakers exact same distance from side walls, toe in etc...
      
      Regards Rob.
      - RE: Rob's room 3 - Ethan Winer 10:09:11 06/27/08 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Rob's room 3 posted by rpoort@bigpond.net.au on June 26, 2008 at 20:52:22
        
        > by symmetry do you mean having speakers exact same distance from side walls, toe in etc... <
        
        Everything in the front of the room should be balanced, especially the area between your ears and the speakers. If the left and right are not identical, then instruments or other sounds panned to the center might be pulled to one side. However, having symmetrical absorption at the side-wall reflection points goes a long way to reducing problems with things that are not symmetrical behind the panels.
        
        --Ethan
        
        RE: Rob's room 3 - rpoort@bigpond.net.au 00:56:09 07/01/08 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Rob's room 3 posted by Ethan Winer on June 27, 2008 at 10:09:11
        
        Hi, i also forgot to mention that my roof has a very steep pitch about 45 degree, that's almost 6m(17') at the highest point.
        
        If i move my system around i wil be firing the sound along the pitch.
        Will this also be the better option?
        
        Regards Rob.
        
        RE: Rob's room 3 - Ethan Winer 10:01:50 07/01/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Rob's room 3 posted by rpoort@bigpond.net.au on July 01, 2008 at 00:56:09
        
        Absorption under the ceiling peak is a good idea in a room like that:
        
        RE: Rob's room 3 - David Aiken 14:43:47 06/27/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Rob's room 3 posted by Ethan Winer on June 27, 2008 at 10:09:11
        
        As Ethan says, having things balanced at the front of the room is desirable because otherwise things can get pulled to one side.
        
        Klaus said "Asymmetry results in the left-right ear signals being more de-correlated which in itself is a good thing because it improves the spatial impression. Asymmetry shouldn't be excessive though�" I think the point there is the bit about asymmetry not being excessive and I think different people will have different tolerance levels. Asymmetry certainly makes spatial aspects very noticeable once you hit your "excessive" level and start to notice left/right differences.
        
        As far as Ethan's suggestion of symmetrical placement of absorption at the side wall first reflection points to reduce asymmetry problems at the side walls go, I am in almost total agreement. The slight 'fudge' I would suggest is having the opposite panels about 2-4" out of symmetry with each other. That's not enough to reduce the benefit of dealing with the asymmetries but you often get slightly more absorption benefit with the opposing panels slightly off-centred with each other. This simple trick can "buy" a little more absorption efficiency. If you have different speaker to side wall distances, you'll automatically get a bit of offset of the opposite panels if you space them the same distance from the walls and use the mirror trick to centre the panels on the first reflection points.
        
        What Ethan did not comment on is asymmetry at the back of the room. I've got an L-shaped room with the toe of the L being behind my chair and to the left. That kind of severe rear of room imbalance also pulls the centre image to one side. I have a first reflection point on the rear wall for my left speaker but not for the right because the bend in the L shape blocks the path the first reflection from the right speaker would take if my room was rectangular. That loss of a first reflection from the right speaker on the rear wall pulls my centre image slightly to the left and needs to be treated with absorption or deflection in order to ensure the centre image is centred.
        
        Basically asymmetrical room shapes will always cause some degree of L/R problem depending on room size and setup. Tracking down all of the causes for the imbalance can take you some time since dealing with the obvious ones can make such a big difference and get you ALMOST right as far as L/R balance goes and I find I have a tendency to relax and accept things at that point. It's also worth noting that you can get the L/R image balanced with the centre image centred and still have a sensation that there is more space to the room on one side than the other, a fairly subtle difference which I suspect may not be possible to totally eliminate but which can be very significantly minimised by paying attention to fine detail in tracking down issues.
        
        I also think asymmetric rooms have some advantages, as well as the obvious disadvantages of L/R balance. One area of benefit is that they introduce more modal frequencies or weaken/broadband some modal resonances and that is often a plus for bass response and helping to smooth the room's response at a slightly lower frequency than would otherwise be the case.
        
        David Aiken
      - Symmetry - asymmetry - KlausR. 04:30:24 06/27/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Rob's room 3 posted by rpoort@bigpond.net.au on June 26, 2008 at 20:52:22
        
        Asymmetry results in the left-right ear signals being more de-correlated which in itself is a good thing because it improves the spatial impression. Asymmetry shouldn't be excessive though (like wall on the right, no wall on the left).
        
        Ando (1977), �Subjective preference in relation to objective parameters of music sound fields with a single echo, J. of the Acoustical Society of America, vol. 62, no.6, p.1463
        
        Schroeder (1979), �Binaural dissimilarity and optimum ceilings for concert halls: More lateral sound diffusion�, J. of the Acoustical Society of America, vol. 65, no. 4, p.958
        
        Toole (2006), �Loudspeakers and rooms for sound reproduction � a scientific review�, J. of the Audio Engineering Society, p.451
        
        Klaus

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