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In Reply to: RE: mics and placement for recording speakers realistically posted by Adriel on December 22, 2010 at 14:01:28
OMNI directional microphones are notorious for picking up room acoustic reflections. You would have to set up in an anechoic chamber (floors, walls, celling made of pyramid acoustic absorbing material and suspended wire floor) of absolutely no reflections and use the mic as a probe on axis with each speaker and even then it would not be as realistic or as forgiving as your ears. Ray
"The gift of imagination is a gift of the Gods imparted to a few who receive innumerable kicks in the a$$ their entire life." LeCorbusier (Edward Jenneret)
Follow Ups:
GR, are you saying "no!" to what Adriel did (and found sorely lacking in the desired results), or what Tom described (using both an outdoor approach as well as an indoor variant)?Regarding the use of omni-directional mics, they're the best way to go. Cardioid, hyper-cardioid, etc. all pick up room reflections also, but with much more coloration than good omnis. I've never seen a cardioid mic with anywhere close to uniform response at more than about 45-60 degrees off-axis. Even the best ones sound noticeably different at 90 degrees compared to on-axis. Omnis also have an increasingly directional pattern at upper frequencies, but the effect is much less obvious than with cardioids.
A person could place the mics closer to the source, rather than at the usual listening position, as long as they're not so close that the balance of sound from individual drivers becomes an issue. But as long as the room is still a factor, omnis are the way to go.
Edits: 02/24/11
I respect your opinion. I've been recording since I was about 17. It is my experience that omnis are only best when you have TOTAL CONTROL in a dead acoustic space. There they are wonderful. When ever I have tried to use them, I get too much boomy bass almost reverberant bass that overshadows the whole recording. Mind you I have to record in gymnasiums, school auditoriums, band rooms, and spaces that are not DEAD and I have no control. I don't have access to a recording studio designed by an acoustic engineer or architect. And I have some condenser mics that I can change the polar pattern from omni to cardiod to fig 8. Omnis are also notorious of picking up everything; the HVAC vent/motor blowing, the noisy kitchen down the hall, folding chair rustling, music page turning on the stands, musician shoe shuffling, semi tractor trailer rigs rolling past outside, car horns, low flying air craft, jack hammers while i am trying to record MUSIC. Using a cardiod has solved most of that. With omnis you have to back them off not to pick up the music page turning or the shoe shuffling or the throat clearings. After you back them off then the music ensemlble sounds like they are in the next county. I realize there are fringe frequency effects of the polar pattern of cardiod mics. But the sound seems nearer and more defined to me and not as distant. IN fact there are some recent recodings on CD by engineers who insist on omnis that sound like the ensemble are in the next country. Inverse square law and all that. I've had my hearing checked so don't tell me that I'm just old or my motorcycle has damaged my hearing. I wear earplugs then and when I am forced kicking and screaming to rock concerts. Cheers! Ray
"The gift of imagination is a gift of the Gods imparted to a few who receive innumerable kicks in the a$$ their entire life." LeCorbusier (Edward Jenneret)
You're just old or your motorcycle has damaged your hearing. ;)
Seriously, I don't disagree with most of what you wrote. Except maybe the part about page turning and shoe shuffling. The placement distances I usually end up with (in location recording) don't present more or less of a problem in that regard, based on pickup pattern. When you get into really live rooms, like the gymnasiums or very live churches, then, yes, you really have to use cardioids. And don't even get me started on noisy HVAC vents!! Our buddy MarantzGuy surely has a thought or two about the topic.
But what I was addressing was the topic at hand: recording the sound of the speakers and room in a home living room.
And you (or someone) noted our hearing ability to discriminate and effectively ignor a certain amount of ambient sound, and that affects our perception of the sound quality. That's certainly true. I might add the comment that when we record and subsequently play back, all of that directional information and the associated discrimination ability is lost, because ALL of the recorded sound is now coming from the speaker (the source!), rather than from all around. This is a huge contributing factor to why Adriel was so disappointed with the recording results. Not knowing the "liveness" character or size of his room, I suppose it's possible that he should try a good cardioid. My main point is simply that an omni will give you a better quality of reverberant sound. But it could well be that the quantity will be too much.
In any case, something like what Tomservo described for an outdoor approach would be best if one wants to eliminate the room, but it doesn't appear that Adriel wants to eliminate the room, he wants to record what he hears at his listening position IN his room. Maybe his question is the wrong question. ;) Either way, this experiment into recording and psychoacoustics certainly will provide him with an opportunity to learn something about both! :)
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