Computer Audio Asylum

Winamp with ASIO Plugin

69.15.212.33

I located exacting instructions on how to implement the ASIO plugin for Winamp. I followed them to the letter and all my settings matched the examples given but I did not perceive much if any improvement.

The instructions indicated that if installed properly the volume in K-Mixer would no longer function.
The result I obtained was just the opposite. My Winamp volume would no longer function.

Any suggestions ? Thanks

Follow Ups:

RE: Winamp with ASIO Plugin - Presto 12:22:56 09/15/08 (7)
You have a couple of things you can do:

1) Select some *other* device as the Windows default plaback/voice device. Then the volume control for *that* device is a moot point, since your ASIO device is doing it's own thing off in the corner.

2) Run a bitperfect test - play back a stereo DTS track from Winamp and see if the digital output is bitperfect. An external DTS decoder should give you music and not static hiss.

Remember that the "volume control" in Windows audio can mean different things. It often "shadows" the volume control of the hardware device you are using. You can see this behavior if you organize your windows to see the windows volume control and the hardware device's mixer level control at the same time. If you slide one, the other moves in tandem. They are NOT separate controls - just the SAME control existing in two different GUIs. If your soundcard has a dual purpose "ASIO and WDM" driver, it will control the volume for ***BOTH*** WDM (KS, DS, Wav) ***AND*** ASIO streams. And, since windows "shadows" the volume control of the hardware mixer, it TOO will control the volume. Are you resampling? With ASIO probably not. But you won't pass the bitperfect (DTS) test if you change the volume! "ASIO = ALL VOLUME CONTROLS DON'T WORK" is hoo-haw invented over by the badly confused and ill-informed guys over at Hydrogen Audio. In some instances, with SOME drivers, the windows volume control is "greyed out" - this means there is no WDM driver for the ASIO device and Windows does not see it - it can't shadow a volume control that is NOT THERE (My USB ASIO driver does this). Most cards that employ ASIO are designed to allow windows to share volume control with their supplied software mixer. This is the reason why ASIO streams, in most cases, can be controlled by the Windows volume control.

The Windows mixer is not "kmixer". Kmixer is only used when two or more streams are played simulateously through a windows audio device that have different sample rates. They are all converted to 48khz and mixed digitally. You can't "mix" audio digitally if the rates are different.

I have successfully streamed bitperfect audio using Directsound (!) simply by ensuring no other streams are being played at the same time. As soon as you play another stream (from the net, or from a game, or from another software player) the DTS test track goes from music to a hiss - you can literally tell when the kmixer is envoked. The biggest myth of all about the dreaded kmixer is that it ALWAYS resamples EVERYTHING! False. False. False. More bogeyman fear stuff. Kmixer only resamples when there are two or more streams that have a different sample rate. If you are playing an audio stream on a dedicated audio server why in the heck would you have a chat window, or game, or another audio source, or... ANYTHING else that makes sound playing in the background????

Well... if you DO want this (some guys DO use their PCs for things other than audio while listening - they play games or chat or... god knows what) you can do this too and STILL have bitperfect 2-channel audio playback using ASIO. All you do here is use onboard sound or a cheaper PCI card for your "windows" audio device. Select it for EVERYTHING WINDOWS. Then use your ASIO device for AUDIO ONLY! Do not use the same device for everything and your problems are over!

Right now, I have USB Audio in ASIO mode and onboard sound for listening to news broadcasts on the net.

Works like a charm.

Capiche?

Cheers,
Presto
- Periodic Bit Perfection Re-tests Advised - Tony Lauck 12:32:16 09/15/08 (6)
  Your post reminded me that it's been some time since I did my bit-perfection tests. Enough software has flown under the damn (sic) that it may be time for me to repeat the tests to see if I am still bit perfect when I think I am.
  
  Tony Lauck
  
  "Perception, inference and authority are the valid sources of knowledge" - P.R. Sarkar
  - One place that can trick people... - Presto 13:20:36 09/15/08 (5)
    Is on Vendor supplied software mixers.
    
    In Windows, we now all know (hopefully) that 50% volume is really 0dbFS - the volume bit is not changed up or down. This is best done by clicking the volume button and then hitting "default" to auto-center the level. I don't have this concern in my setups however! :o)
    
    In VENDOR supplied software mixers you really need to do your own testing. 0dbFS could be 50%, it could be full slider, or it could be 80% slider or some other number! Some sliders SHOW YOU the level graphically or numerically. Others are less intuitive.
    
    Even ASIO level control can make/break bit-perfect. But some guys think if their ASIO mixer is controlling the volume during ASIO playback (and Windows just happens to be shadowing it) then they're using Kmixer.
    
    I must admit - the amount of misinformation out there gives PCs a bad rep for good reason! One has to spend much time sifting through the misinformation and do much testing to come up with the truth.
    
    Cheers,
    Presto
    - Not all of us knew that "50% volume is really 0dbFS" - rick_m 21:01:40 09/15/08 (2)
      Is this true for all of the sliders or just the "volume control"?
      
      Is that true regardless of the audio card vendor?
      
      I've been seeing some confusing level results and that could sure account for much of it. I've not been able to find any useful documentation and it's tough to figure out what the software is really up to.
      
      Thanks, Rick
      - Once again, the DTS test... - Presto 05:05:24 09/16/08 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not all of us knew that "50% volume is really 0dbFS" posted by rick_m on September 15, 2008 at 21:01:40
        
        I like the DTS test. YOu take a SPDIF source like any toslink or coax output that is KS or ASIO capable. Then you run your audio app. If ANY sliders cause the volume bit to be anything but 0dbFS, the DTS stream is scrambled. IF your sliders are in the correct spots and you are STILL not getting DTS passthrough, something ELSE is scrambling the audio... the dreaded kmixer.
        
        I have gotten the DTS test to pass with KS, ASIO, directsound, and direcsound 2.0, but I think the buck stops at Waveout.
        
        Again, I recommend NOT having your "serious" audio interface enabled as windows audio default playback, record or voice devices. Pick a dummy card or onboard codec for this. You can even USE the dummy (since it's selected anyways) for day-to-day sounds like games, internet, and other "non-critical" multi-media sounds. Then your "serious" audio interface is not messed up with Windows shadowing the volume controls of the vendor supplied software mixer.
        
        Also remember that the vendor supplied software mixer WILL have level controls that will NOT be disabled because they are ASIO. The "Volume Control Disabled" is when windows audio encounters a TRUE ASIO driver and has no way to access it (No KS, DS, or waveout mode). So the volume control disabled for ASIO to be working idea is PC Audio Myth #43 and nothing more. THe disabled volume control does happen in WINDOWS, but a FUNCTIONAL volume control under ASIO on the vendor software mixer is a given. Confuse the two, and you'll never get ASIO "working"!!
        
        I'm going back to bed...
        
        Cheers,
        Presto
        
        RE: Once again, the DTS test... - The Sound Guy 10:27:51 09/18/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Once again, the DTS test... posted by Presto on September 16, 2008 at 05:05:24
        
        For my laptop's SPDIF out, the Windows master volume control has no effect!
        
        When using Foobar with kernel streaming none of the Windows volume control (master/wave) or mute has any control; ie, the volume is the same irrespective of the slider or the mute. When using Foobar with Directsound, the "wave" control gets control but the master volume still has no control. In both cases Foobar's internal volume has control.
        
        How do you explain this?
        
        My laptop unfortunately doesn't pass the DTS test :-(
    - RE: One place that can trick people... - Tony Lauck 13:58:52 09/15/08 (1)
      "In Windows, we now all know (hopefully) that 50% volume is really 0dbFS"
      
      If you use a 24 bit DAC this becomes a non-issue. I run a digital volume control, set to about -2 db with the most quiet classical recordings when I want to hear them play loudly. With normal jazz and classical recordings, the range is down to -8 db for critical listening. I have some compressed recordings that require the gain to be set down to -15 db or even more, but these don't sound good no matter what. These recordings were ruined in their production process.
      
      It can be advantageous to use a digital volume control, as some program material has intersample peaks over 0 dbFs and may create distortion during playback without a digital gain reduction. The analog portions of a DAC may also have problems with some inputs, and a volume reduction can help.
      
      I don't use the Windows volume control, I keep the device volume control at 100% when using cPlay or Foobar2000, and I keep the Windows audio mapped to a throw-away AC97 DAC. cPlay and Foobar2000 are using ASIO4ALL to my device driver. This may not be the best way, but it seems to work on my system.
      
      Tony Lauck
      
      "Perception, inference and authority are the valid sources of knowledge" - P.R. Sarkar
      - I do the same thing - Presto 14:54:46 09/15/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: One place that can trick people... posted by Tony Lauck on September 15, 2008 at 13:58:52
        
        "and I keep the Windows audio mapped to a throw-away AC97 DAC."
        
        This maps all sounds from apps other than my playback software to that "non-critical" sound card. Better yet - you can use the AC97 to hear internet and other multimedia (or games) sounds if you even do these things in the foreground and listen in the background.
        
        Cheers,
        Presto
I use Otachan's ASIO plugin to much satisfaction. My suggestions: - carcass93 07:46:59 09/15/08 (4)
1. If you're talking about ASIO plugin that's downloadable from Winamp site - forget it, it's pretty much piece of garbage.

2. You need to use Otachan's ASIO, EXE version 0.70 - DLL version is inferior (although some soundcards' drivers don't work with EXE version).

3. Of two included versions, SSE2 is better. It can be recompiled to take advantage of newer CPUs - let me know if you're interested in details.

4. The best performance is achieved with sound cards that support ASIO natively - i.e. if you're using ASIO4ALL, you are not really using the plugin to it's potential.

5. Volume control in Winamp is disabled when using Otachan ASIO.
- Re: I use Otachan's ASIO plugin to much satisfaction. My suggestions: - kbamhi 15:06:48 09/15/08 (3)
  I was following these instructions:
  
  http://www.aqvox.de/Asio-USB-Audio-installation-e.htm
  
  and although the Winamp volume did end up disabled, the link indicates the Windows volume control which I am referring to as KMixer is the one that should be disabled.
  - That's what I was talking about in #1 and #4 in my reply - you're using bad plugin, and ASIO4ALL. - carcass93 18:00:08 09/15/08 (2)
    Re: #1 - download this plugin (scroll down a little, to paragraph 4):
    http://otachan.com/out_asio(exe).html
    Extract it, and use version from SSE2 folder.
    
    Re: #2 - Using ASIO4ALL, you're simulating ASIO functionality for the audio device that doesn't support it natively. You might want to try some alternatives, like Kernel Streaming plugin:
    http://www.stevemonks.com/ksplugin/
    
    or Ploytec USB ASIO driver:
    http://www.usb-audio.com/download.html
    
    Edits: 09/15/08 09/15/08
    - I can vouch for Ploytec driver - Presto 05:17:40 09/16/08 (1)
      It's sort of like the "ASIO4ALL" of USB drivers.
      
      It uses kernel streaming to get low latency streaming to a plethora of standard USB devices. It does NOT use usbaudio.sys under XP - and trust me, this is a good thing.
      
      It costs a few bucks, but if you're a die-hard XP or Vista fan and you like USB products that happen to rely on USBAUDIO.SYS, then the Ploytec driver is for you. Might save you an upgrade to Vista - also a good thing if you ask me! :o)
      
      * I have only used this driver with XP. I use v2.6.1 with XP as v2.8.7 for XP/Vista was crashing for me. 2.6.1. is rock solid with XP SP2 and SP3
      ** If you get dropouts simply buy a $20 PCI USB expansion card and plug your USB Audio device into it instead of the USB slots connected directly to the motherboard. Mobo USB slots share IRQ's that cannot be changed which leads to dropouts. The PCI-USB expansion card, by its inherent nature, is assigned it's (drum roll please) VERY OWN IRQ. Read more about this at usbman.com if you're into the geeky stuff like I am.
      
      CHeers,
      PResto
      - RE: I can vouch for Ploytec driver - kbamhi 05:35:53 09/16/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I can vouch for Ploytec driver posted by Presto on September 16, 2008 at 05:17:40
        
        I am presently attempting to get decent sound on the cheap which is why I am using Winamp and haven't gone to the mac mini route or even the squeezebox.
        
        66.00 bucks for a plugin is just a bit pricey for me at the present. I am however going to try some of the other suggestions.
        
        Thank you all for the input.

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