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In Reply to: RE: I don't think so Gordon.... posted by TubeDriver on January 19, 2012 at 12:06:36
What DSP setting for bitrate are you using with JRiver? Before Bifrost (and currenly; mine is on order and expected delivery is March 7th) when I was trialing JRiver I upsampled to 24/192 and that sounded best on a variety of native bitrates from 16/44.1 to 24/96 to 24/192. I understand that the bifrost plays at native bitrate, and doesn't upsample (or does it on the sly). How do you configure your media player, and how does the bifrost display what's being received (some have LED's that indicate native or upsampled bitrate)? Does bifrost just play with no indication of native bitrate? Just curious. I guess I'll find out soon enough! Thanks for your review.
Freedom is the right to discipline yourself.
Edits: 03/03/12 03/03/12Follow Ups:
I spent a considerable time playing around with J River upsampling rates. My initial impressions were that for CDs or higher Rez stuff, ups,ailing was a mixed bag in that it sounded better with certain songs but not as good with others. However after additional listening I settled with no upsampling and just using the native rate.
I do listen to Pandora (which is 192 MP3) and I run the windows setting at 24/44.1 which sounds good, but have also had good results upsampling to 16/88.2. In general, I think Pandora responds better to upsampling than with higher Rez stuff (CD or better).
Let me know what you find once you start playing around with the Bifrost and JR MC 17, it is easy to do but there does not appear to be a definitive answer to this issue for me. Some things sound better upsamples while other things sound better at their native rate.
I normally use a Realtek High-Definition audio player in my Gateway PC, and I'm pretty used to it always upsampling to 24/192. I never have any glitch problems or overtly digital effects. No EQ, no DSP but for the upsampling, and with JRiver I had the same result. I'm using foobar2000 now, and I find that it's more like what I can probably expect from the schiit. It plays at native bitrate and seems to sound even better with no EQ than JRiver. I'm one who likes a tweak on the tone, too. I do it from my receiver(s) now and it sounds really natural. I'm sure that with the bifrost I'll get more of the same, not necessarily way different. I'm at least off the upsampling now, and ready to follow where the bifrost leads bitwise.
Freedom is the right to discipline yourself.
Edits: 03/05/12 03/05/12 03/05/12
Hey Tubedriver - I am also playing with SRC's to process my redbook files before I send them to my Transporter. Somewhat different set-up, but I wonder if you have tried upsampling to 24/96 using Sox with foobar? With the Sox SRC you can also select minimum phase, which I have found to sound better on my system vs. the usual linear phase. Minimum phase gets rid of the pre-ring. I find that to be less of a 'digital' sound.
With that said, I'm sure that all this kind of stuff is very system dependent (the Transporter uses ethernet vs. USB etc). Fun stuff though! It doesnt cost anything to tinker.
I like minimum phase filters (used that filter on my old DacMagic).
I believe the filter is on the backside of the DAC conversion process so I can't get that option on my Bifrost. I wish Schiit would release a minimum phase filter for the Bifrost but I believe that would require upsampling which Schiit feels is a no-no.
But Bitfrost would not change the filter if it came in high res. would it? I would assume it would leave it alone like my Transporter does.
I guess what I'm thinking of is the upsampling filter. If the data is high res. it wont be upsampled.
I might be confused on this. Feel free to shed some light on how this works!
I believe this to be true. It won't convert the number of bits, though likely as not, it will "oversample" digitally so it can slap an anti aliasing filter on it.
I think a typical DAC that "upsamples" takes a 16bit/44.1kHz sampled signal and converts it to 24bit/192kHz - and then may oversample this 2-4x. Convert it to analog, and have an analog filter to remove aliasing products.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
I think this is often refereed to in two different terms: oversampling and upsampling.
in some aspects these are the same thing but in terms of practical implementation they are used for different reasons.
The Bifrost does not intentionally upsample (alter bit rates) but as a delta sigma DAC will use oversampling during conversion.
The Bifrost does not up-sample, it is supposed to use the native rates. So if you run a 16/44 signal into the Bifrost, the Bifrost DAC will convert the 16/44 signal into an analogue signal. Most other current DAC will automatically up-sample to 24/196 before the analogue signal is created. On the other hand, it is a delta-sigma type dac and so it must oversample?
I am not sure what you mean? As I understand it, the digital filtering function is built into the AKM DAC chip and occurs in the digital domain. So any digital signal that enters the Bifrost is digitally filtered. There may also be low pass filters in the analogue domain after leaving the DAC chip as well.
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