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Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1

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I have a Dac 2.1 Kit. Can anyone tell me about what is involved with upgrading my 2.1 to a 3.1? Also very interested in adding or converting spdif connection to usb connection (to Macbook pro). Thanks for the information.

Follow Ups:

RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - Bones13 10:06:53 01/31/12 (0)
I ordered my 4.1 without the USB card. Still building my kit, so things still can change. Currently I am going to mount the one RCA SPDIF, and either XLR or BNC for the second input. I have both jacks, just have not been able to commit to one or the other.

On my office system I have a Halide Bridge/PSA DLIII unit which will be replaced by my current W4S DAC2, freeing the Halide Bridge for the 4.1 to start with.

I have planned to leave the RCA SPDIF open for input from my CD player, using either the XLR or BNC for a USB-SPDIF converter, or even building a Windows based file player with Lynx Card XLR out, but there are just about as many adapters there. Using a MacMini + firewire external drive and the Halide Bridge into the RCA jack seems like a clean and neat solution. Asynch, and no fussing above 96k, which the 4.1 won't see anyway.

There seems to be fierce dogfighting in the USB-SPDIF converter arena currently, driving up features, and driving down the pricing. For those of us that don't need stratospheric sample rates, many of the "new" features are not worth paying for currently. Good clocks, clean power...
RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - umea101 12:32:57 01/20/11 (7)
Hi!

I did the upgrade from on old style DAC 2.1 to the new DAC 3.1 with M2-X power supply a few months ago. My DAC 2.1 still had a seperate power transformer for the digital stage and the old digital power supply, which was just the digital section of the DAC 2.0 power supply. With a new tube regulated power supply the upgrade resulted in a completely new build, except for the digital board. If you have a newer version of the DAC 2.1 with only one power transformer and the small digital power supply board now in use you only need to exchange the tube output stage, which is a smaller undertaking.

Anyway: The upgrade is completely worth it and brings the sound to a whole new level.

As for the USB input: I do not care too much for the unmodified HagUSB, as it sounds a little too coarse. I upgraded the clock about 2 years ago to a Tentlabs 12 MHz clock, which improved the sound quite a lot. I also upgraded the USB cable, resulting in a richer sound with more punch. Nowadays there should be plenty of USB/S/PDIF converters available that beat that combination.

Software: With my 16/44.1 files I do not hear any difference between Amarra, PureMusic and Itunes. I wish a software upgrade could improve sound quality some more, but for me it does not. Have a go with the demo versions.

Hope that helps.
- RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - AstroSonic 10:36:59 01/21/11 (6)
  "Software: With my 16/44.1 files I do not hear any difference between Amarra, PureMusic and Itunes. "
  
  The sound quality improvement using Pure Music was subtle, but clearly evident through my stock 3.1. The improvement in 'memory mode' was fairly substantial. Cap upgrades in the power supplies made the improvements really quite dramatic. Of course, the perception of such changes is also system and listener dependent.
  
  "I upgraded the clock about 2 years ago to a Tentlabs 12 MHz clock, which improved the sound quite a lot."
  
  Sounds interesting! Could you tell us a little more about this?
  
  Thanks,
  
  Bob
  - RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - umea101 02:39:50 01/22/11 (5)
    Funny about the software. One thing that might be contributing is that I increased the process priority of itunes, which gives a small advantage.
    
    The clock replacement on the HagUSB works the same way as an after market clock for a CD player. The only difference is the required clock frequency of 12 MHz, which is not available from all manufacturers. Have a look at the Tentlabs webpage for more details.
    
    I chose this route 2 years ago because the upgrade was pretty straightforward and no other solutions were readily available. Nowadays one is probably better off with one of the better USB / S/PDIF converters.
    
    The improvements are the same as with many clock improvements: Smoother, more resolved treble, tighter, more tuneful bass.
    - RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - AstroSonic 08:46:10 01/23/11 (4)
      Thanks for the info. I'll probably be going the converter route. They are a rapidly expanding market, with more alternatives, better performance and decreasing prices likely over the next several months. It seems like a converter could be built into the AN DAC kits, offered in place of the Hagtech. Just a thought...
      
      Regards,
      
      Bob
      - RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - blueixus 01:15:03 01/24/11 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 posted by AstroSonic on January 23, 2011 at 08:46:10
        
        I too would love to see Audio Note Kits embrace one of the OEM offering for an inbuilt USB input, M2Tech and a host of others offer these now.
        
        The Audio Note Dac remains a simply brilliant piece of kit and this would bring it bang up to date.
        
        Please....
        
        RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - Tubeheadz 03:55:12 01/24/11 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 posted by blueixus on January 24, 2011 at 01:15:03
        
        Hi blueixus
        
        I take it that you read my post???..... The M2Tech products (none of them) lend themselves to internal mounting in the DACs. There are also too many variables out there right now to make the case for a viable research project (within AN K). For example.... it is well known that Firewire is a better transfer protocol, but there just aren't the drivers available. There are other approaches such as the Logitech Duet, that convert from TCP/IP to S/PDIF. Which is the right one? For the long haul.... or right now? So, I am starting an objective study and I am asking if any members out there are interested in somehow participating? I do understand that for the most part, once someone has found "their baby," they stick to it and defend it vociferously... that is human nature. I guess I'm not human (all those years working at IBM)! So I put it out there.... if anyone else in interested in computer based music and the interface to the AN K DAC's feel free to e-mail me.
        
        btw... I am not talking about music servers or music stored on a PC used for other things as well.... I'm talking about dedicated computer storage and playback of hi-res music, using a hard wired (not WiFi) system. This also entails optimizing the O/S to remove unnecessary services.
        
        At this point I am using an IBM/Intel computer with a 1TB Cinemastar drive, Windows XP and J River application software.... however that may change, as the MacMini guys have been able to make their case quite convincingly. I also tried the Ubuntu version of UNIX and unfortunately abondoned that, at least for now, due to the learning curve required.
        
        Until next time.... enjoy the music
        
        Tubeheadz
        
        RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - blueixus 10:05:40 01/24/11 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 posted by Tubeheadz on January 24, 2011 at 03:55:12
        
        Actually I was following up on Astrosonics note, but that does not matter.
        
        You are right there are many many variables. I've been down this track for the past two years seriously.
        
        I don't have a 'baby' in this area, as I have not found something to call my 'baby' yet.
        
        I have moved from PC to Mac, and tried the Logitech products along the way. With PC I found one application that was quite excellent - XXHE - but also found it too difficult to use as a daily item. More a criticism of me than the software.
        
        With Mac there are a range of software solutions than seem easier and more akin to itunes which brings both benefits and downsides. I am in a Mac place now and the results are steadily improving.
        
        All of this has been from a dedicated computer, non wifi system. I do and will always struggle with OS as I simply do not have enough knowledge in that area.
        
        I have a view that the computer approaches may not be right. Computers are not built for audio alone and therefore will always be compromised in context of the standards HiFi should be built to.
        
        I spend a lot of time of the computeraudiophile forum where people spend a lot of time trying to minimise the activity of their computers on the process, often Macs.
        
        So logically The TCP/IP to SPIDF conversion outside of the PC in a dedicated 'audio enviroment' seems better but I found the operation of these is not great and I don't want a network as it is more complexity.
        
        Ideally I would like to use vanilla itunes like player to select the tracks (rather than PM or Amarra) and have the computer pass the entire file/s (of what ever resolution - upto 96kHz for Audio Note)) via USB (your point about firewire is valid but it seems to be on a longterm losing to streak to USB 2.0) to a dedicated external converter to SPIDF or I2S. That way all the conversion from WAV or AIFF to SPIDF/I2S can be handled outside the computer with decent clocks and PSUs.
        
        There are also few interesting SD card players floating around that output in SPIDF/I2S that look interesting - I am going to take the plunge and try one soon as they are dedicated standalone players - I don't think they are the future but they may provide some of the DNA!
        
        Anyway coming back to the interface with the AN K Dacs it seems SPIDF or possibly I2S will be the route in.
        
        Excuse this stream of thought but it is a very interesting area I just wish I had more skills that were pertinent to it!
        
        Optimum USB to SPDIF Converter for AN DAC Kits - AstroSonic 08:17:11 01/24/11 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 posted by Tubeheadz on January 24, 2011 at 03:55:12
        
        Once some critical parts upgrades are made to the AN DAC kits, I think that the USB to SPDIF converter is the next critical performance 'bottleneck' for a Computer/USB based digital source.
        
        I would be interested in an effort in choosing optimum usb to spdif converter for use with the AN kit DACs. I recognize that it may come down to personal preferences. An asychronous approach may be the best, but reviews suggest that a more ideal implementaion of the 'adaptive' approach used by the Hagerman unit currently offered with the kits might also be good. See the Stereophile review if the Halide Design Bridge - the difference between the Bridge and the Stello U2 was subtle. A recent 'converter comparo' in Positive Feedback (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue51/usb_converters.htm) also suggest this. I would certainly be open to modification of the Hagerman, if it is a worthy modification platform (in other words, if that would result in sound compretitive with other potentially built-in options like the U2, EVO, etc.).
        
        Regards,
        
        Bob
RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - blueixus 01:09:44 01/20/11 (3)
I am still a 2.1 user, so I can't comment on the steps required. I have however spent an inordinate time on the USB to SPIDF topic as I only use a Computer as my music source.

In the last 18 months or so a host of USB to SPIDF converters have arrived on the market, such as the M2Tech Hiface & Evo, Wavelength Wavelink, Empirical Audio Off Ramp, SonicWeld Diverter, Audiophileo, Halide Bridge. These are all external and will handle sample rates up to and beyond the Audionote's 96kHz capability.

They vary in price from $150 to about $2000. All use Async technology which is a big step forward over the Hagtech converter spec'ed by Audionote even at the basic 44.1kHz 16 Bit CD rate.

I am currently using a M2Tech Hiface which is the cheapest of the list above with a BNC connection, which I find excellent.

The second issue if you are going down this route to consider is playback software. IMO jolly old itunes is not the best thing out there for serious listening. For Mac users there are choices Amarra, Pure Music, Ayrewave and Audirvana. The first two work alongside itunes, again prices vary from $0 to $600. These offer 'improved SQ' and also handle files with differing sample rates with greater ease than itunes. All offer free trial downloads.

Regards
- RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - tubeheadz 14:03:01 01/23/11 (2)
  There are quite a few internal USB to S/PDIF converters available....I am audiitioning the Taralab X2-M at this time. The X2-M does require its own power source, so I take the taps from the power transformer and add an additional transformer for the digital power supply. Works out quite nicely actually. Another external option is the Logitech Duet. Throw out the wallwart power supply and with a few cap upgrades it sounds truly excellent.
  
  For Windows users, J River seems to be the best software, followed by the free Foobar. I'll be doing more work on computer stored hi-def music over the next few months if anyone is interested.
  
  Until next time... enjoy the music.
  
  Tubeheadz
  
  The upgrade from the DAC 2.1 to 3.1 is great, however the DAC 2.1 can be enhanced with cost effective mods bringing it very close to the 3.1 in performance.
  - RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - fc911c@ptd.net 08:44:54 01/31/12 (0)
    Hi
    I would also like to know about these mods?
  - RE: Upgrading a Dac 2.1 to 3.1 - mawerc 21:41:06 08/08/11 (0)
    I have a 2.1 Level B Signiture Series.
    Could you let me know what the improvements to the 2.1, that bring it closer to the 3.1, you suggest.
    I am also interested in upgrading the USB input. I am getting good results with Audirvana and BitPerfect at the moment, but believe that it is an area that can be improved.

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