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AN-E kit 03 Cabinet plans

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Hello,

Firstly, I have seached the forum and cant find the answer ... now the question!.....

Is it possible to get the detailed cabinet plans for the Kit 3 speaker ahead of buying the kit of drivers and parts?

I ask this because I DO intend to make them, however funds for this will not be available for a month or two and in the meantime, I would like to use the time to make the cabinets with the care and leisure that it will allow, instead of waiting a couple of months getting the kits with the cabinet drawings and then, perhaps rushing to get them up and running!

So I am wonder if I can get the cabinet plans without buying the kit first??????

Many thanks.

Derek

Follow Ups:

RE: AN-E kit 03 Cabinet plans - Rune 10:39:52 08/07/07 (0)
Check with Brian at Audio Note kits or Peter at Audio Note UK.
Most of the dimensions in the site linked to is correct but I believe there has been some small changes.

Good luck and you are getting some good speakers there! :-)
I greatly enjoy the kit I bought which is a special version with the alnico mid/woofer.I'm also getting the alnico tweeter when it gets comercial available.

Best,
Rune
RE: AN-E kit 03 Cabinet plans - Artur 01:55:14 08/04/07 (20)
Hi Derek,
Perhaps this site will help you:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/HES_II.htm

Best regards,
Artur
- It should be noted that Peter Qvortrup defended the bass and sensitivity rating on the HE forum... - RGA 06:28:19 08/06/07 (15)
  so some of what is in that article linked is not quite correct. Mainly that Stereophile did a proper job on measuring the loudspeaker.
  
  In fact I really wonder about a magazine that deliberately measures a loudspeaker AGAINST the recommended positioning? I mean I know JA got into battles with PQ on the net years ago about DA conversion but it seems like that carried over into deliberately measuring the speaker improperly.
  
  Be that as it may - luckily Art Dudly has ears, and Martin Collom's measurements support AN specs.
  - I'd question Dudley ears ... - limono 18:34:49 08/06/07 (2)
    and his ethics a little bit too. His main reviewing tool still seems to be a pair of full range Lowthers in Medallion cabinet ,100Hz-8kHz speaker to judge equipment hmm. Also he used to be critical of Stereophile and other glossy magazines but when Listener folded jumped on the same wagon.Life of reviewers is rewarding isn't it ?,way more than being a school teacher. As to the AN speakers all the manufacturers manipulate data ,nothing new .What is characteristic to AN proponents is extreme case of herd behavior and cult following causing anti AN reactions of other clans ;) Poor P.Q is a victim of own cult being intimidated with countless questions from the herd of the sort i.e "what kind of resistor on the second stage cathode to use and should it be 1 or 2 watts or does AN finished products use a super E config. if not maybe its not the best idea to use it", should I use shottky and why not".OT.
    Kondo san the co -founder of AN passed away and almost no one noticed on the AN site besides one short enigmatic post and even more enigmatic reply that the guy yes had some insights but he was a weirdo anyway with most of his designs flawed ,but when some of the user of some obscure audio forum
    has a problem with copper coupling caps there is alarming red light (my guess is most of the users of pio coupling caps had problem with them quietly resolved behind the scene)and great debate. The same thing with the speakers ,the published data doesn't comply very well with the physics
    so what if they don't .Why everybody who got in the possession of any kind of AN "crap"feel obliged to defend the brand ??
    - RE: I'd question Dudley ears ... - RGA 05:28:40 08/07/07 (1)
      I can't address Lowther but the proponents of it love the lack of a crossover and driver handoff - thus a complete cohesiveness. Art also uses the Quad 989 as his reference loudspeaker (which he mentions in the review of the AN E) --- the Quad and panel lovers of the world hold Quad up as some beacon of perfection. And the 57 measures horribly has no frequency extremes either and can't play even remotely loud...yet....
      
      I am critical of Stereophile as well but if they asked me to review for them I would because it would give me the opportunity in a way to right the ship. Obviously Art is getting the speakers he would be favorable to as likely do the other reviewers. The Stereophile Paradigm owner who gets the new Paradigm 60 to review for example.
      
      I don't give Audio Note a complete free pass and yet no doubt I am considered a cult follower by many. For example I never heard the Zero cd player but to me it's a silly product that has no skip functions on the machine and only on the remote(the cheap remote breaks and you're stuck, or speakers that have no banana plugs?
      
      I was not at all impressed by the sound of the AX One - I like the Meishu but to me it makes no sense at the price over the Soro. I would upgrade to their separates and bypass the Meishu. While this is not a direct knock on the Meishu (because I like its sound a lot) for me it seems illogical.
      
      The speakers were of course measured by Martin Colloms who is more of an expert than JA in this field and was also the editor of Stereophile. He is also the founder of Monitor Audio. If Colloms measured the speaker 18hz -6db with 94db sensitivity(then you can be sure it's right) and Paul Messenger's Hi-Fi Choice did the same (and this with the less sensitive drivers) and even Art got 25hz flat then I have to wonder. AN provides so few specs anyway. Why lie? No one buys Audio Note for the specs anyway. I mean for heaven sake this is a SET manufacturer making tube no oversampling DACs. The only advertising is on the website so it's not exactly like they shovel measurements at people. 18hz -6db is hardly a number that someone is going to say "right this is the speaker for me" and phone up a dealer and have it shipped to them.
      
      No this is a company people listen to and frankly with the looks, the tube pain in the ass factor, lack of warranty, lack of measurements support, has to be THAT much better than the B&W/Bryston like set-ups of similar money. At least to my ear it is THAT much better because frankly I like the idea of a 20 year warranty and the easy resale appeal and the scientific acceptance factor.
      
      But in the end the B&W 801 is rated to 25hz -3db and in my audition the E had a deeper low end (granted the ear is less accurate but it is certainly more important). The E simply sounds so much better and it costs significantly less - it can of course cost a lot more but the E/LX over the N801 or Wilson Sophia - to me it's not even a contest.
      
      As for mistakes by the company (I am unfamiliar with cap problems) and issues with Quality control I am sure Audio Note has their fair share of these as most any company has. I would expect tube amps to have more "issues" than your average amplifier. My speakers for example are not free of blemishes and some people would be unhappy, they also had a connection problem with the silver bar attaching the HF/LF sockets. Just not tight - easy fix but when you spend the money on a company you know nothing about the worry sets in a bit.
      
      I would hope that AN would respond well to problems in an acceptable way. If your theory is correct and they resolve the problems quietly behind the scenes then I see no problem with that.
      
      I don't think AN fans thought Kondo was a kook. There are people who are in the Kondo camp and the Peter camp. I read the posts of both of them on AA and I think I understand it well enough. Kondo was the original founder and designer, Peter was the deciding ears, created the company growth plan and put up all the money.
      
      I suppose Peter could have put up a post about the death of Kondo, but my bet is that it would have done more damage, especially with the anti-AN UK crowd ready to jump.
      - RE: I'd question Dudley ears ... - PhilJ 05:56:28 09/12/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I'd question Dudley ears ... posted by RGA on August 07, 2007 at 05:28:40
        
        RGA,
        
        in reply to your comment:
        
        I was not at all impressed by the sound of the AX One - I like the Meishu but to me it makes no sense at the price over the Soro. I would upgrade to their separates and bypass the Meishu. While this is not a direct knock on the Meishu (because I like its sound a lot) for me it seems illogical.
        
        Have you compared the Meishu to the Soro? I have the Soro SE and have dreamed of owning the Meishu, what are the differences?
        
        thank you
        
        Phil
  - RE: It should be noted that Peter Qvortrup defended the bass and sensitivity rating on the HE forum... - Artur 11:54:48 08/06/07 (11)
    > RAGA
    Who cares about measurements.
    The most important things is that you like or not speakers..
    Of course this is my private opinion..;-))
    Regards,
    Artur
    - Stereophile - pdogger 08:01:24 08/07/07 (9)
      Anyone notice that in subsequent issues of Sterophile (after the issue reviewing the AN/E LX Sigs) that Art Dudley (I think that is the reviewer) still uses the AN speakers as "associated equipment" when reveiwing other components? I wonder if he is keeping reveiw samples for extended period or if they were purchased... In any case, I think this says somehting about his opinion of the speakers.
      
      Stereophile, like many magazines, gives positive reviews of almost everything they hear. Something like "if you are interested in X component in this price range you should definitely audition product A." Only in the recommended components issue do you get any sense of where products actually rank relative to each other. As with most things in life, you must take their writings/opinions with a grain of salt and read between the lines a bit.
      - RE: Stereophile - DRCope 06:29:22 08/08/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Stereophile posted by pdogger on August 07, 2007 at 08:01:24
        
        Art liked them very much, but the fact is that it was my fault that they lingered so long. Winter weather, car trouble and calendars at cross-purposes added many months to their stay. Art now has a pair of another, less expensive model E for review, this time with the hemp woofer, which I carted out to his place and swapped with the E/Lexus Sigs.
        
        I find it helpful to read reviewers' opinions over time, gauge whether their tastes strongly correlate with or against your own, (or are too weak or vascillating to tell), then use them as a positive or negative indicator as to whether you want to go to the bother to find and audition the products in question.
        
        Keep your ears and your mind open.
      - Peter Van Wellinsward (sp?) of Stereophile owns the AN E... - RGA 20:33:05 08/07/07 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Stereophile posted by pdogger on August 07, 2007 at 08:01:24
        
        As does Hi-fi Choice magazine to test equipment for auditioning. The editor of enjoythemusic also owns the AN J as a reference.
        
        Of course not everyone will agree, but all the employees and owner of SOundhounds (my dealer in Victoria) own AN systems. They have heard everything over the last 20-35 years - they go to the shows etc as well. To me this says even more than just a reviewer. Terry (owner of Soundhounds) has been doing this for 35 years and has sold piles of gear. It says a lot that after dealing with gear 6 days a week that he goes home to listen to his AN E. Not a set of Magnepan 20.1s or Quads or B&W Diamonds etc.
        
        I also found it interesting that before the AN E he owned the Snell E. We may be members of the cult but to me it has to be quite good to have a cult following.
        
        And AN has enough fo the so called professional reviewers backing it up that even if you say Art Dudly is wrong - there is also Steven Rochlin, Paul Messenger, Martin Colloms, Lynn Olson, Bob Neil, one of the mastering engineers for Chesky Records(name not coming) and a host of others who get what AN is about.
        
        RE: Peter Van Wellinsward (sp?) of Stereophile owns the AN E... - limono 22:32:52 08/07/07 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Peter Van Wellinsward (sp?) of Stereophile owns the AN E... posted by RGA on August 07, 2007 at 20:33:05
        
        RGA
        If I'd not get what AN is about I wouldn't be hanging out on this boring forum.I think blind following and gruppies are doing disservice to the firm
        antagonizing potential buyers.Lets see what the scripture says;there is Peter -the ears , Andy-designer and the factory of 50 yet they produce the best speakers, the best amps, preamps, transformers, cables,passive parts (caps resitors ) also the best turntables , cd-players and dacs. Quite an achievement I mean I'm about to pray to P.Q too;)When do they find the time to precisely match countless speakers to a few different parameters and to the cabinet?? I did not read single honest comparison between the kit and equivalent factory speaker besides rumors spread by the dealers and following web speculations. P.Q himself remarked that matching of the kit speakers is exactly the same as production speakers -it makes a good economic sense by the standards of line assembly. I have to say that I like those speakers a lot and always recommend them to everybody on the quest. All the people in the audio business are deprived and especially reviewers. I had sort of respect for Dudley and the Listener but he's just an opportunist like the others . The names you mentioned ,mean nothing.Also your dealer and his staff could sell as well sausage and beef and their opinion and tastes would be as relevant as they are now. I don't think Kondo's "post scriptum" would create any stir and I could never understand why there were any antagonisms between the camps to begin with. The competition (if any) was on so esoteric (i.e expensive ) level that I doubt that most of the hoodlums involved in those futile accusations had only a brief chance to listen to the equipment not even mentioning direct valid comparison.My guess is that most of the antagonist have a problem with AN UK business model not a gear itself but I personally like P.Q's "magic dust".Regards, L
        
        Matching Speakers & Building Everything - Peter Qvortrup 08:11:38 08/10/07 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Peter Van Wellinsward (sp?) of Stereophile owns the AN E... posted by limono on August 07, 2007 at 22:32:52
        
        Dear Limono,
        
        Let me say that I agree with you that blindly following anything is not a good concept, one should always keep one's critical faculties in tact and in place.
        
        As far as making "the best of everything" is concerned, I think it is important to note that this project, if you will, has sofar taken over 30 years of my life and coming up to 20 of Andy Grove's, so nothing has been achieved over night, but is the result of a great deal of hard work and dedication, whether the end results are worthwhile in an absolute only really time will tell, but so far so good, I suppose.
        
        The processes that make the speakers are industrialised, using proprietary computer programs, which have also developed over many years.
        
        As far as the manufacture and sound of the speaker kits versus the finished speakers is concerned here is what I say on the web site, I quote,
        
        "Will my kit be an exact equivalent of the finished AN-E/LX?
        
        No, it will be close provided the cabinet is made with fine tolerances and from the right grade of Baltic birch plywood, BUT it is important to appreciate that a finished AN-E is always likely to be better that any equivalent kit version, no matter which one, as the drivers we use in the kits have a slightly wider "spread" in performance than the ones used in the finished products, basically the kits get the drivers which cannot be matched within the very tight criteria used in our finished products.
        
        Also we do not spend anywhere near the amount of time setting up the Kit speaker's driver - crossover matching, we allow a tolerance on the finished products of 0.2dB plus or minus, in the kits this is increased to 0.6dB plus or minus, mind you this is still several dB better than anything done by other manufacturers, but it is audible in the overall performance of the speakers, if you do a direct comparison on very good equipment
        
        This and the fact that it is necessary to rematch the driver - crossovers to the actual cabinets when assembled to maintain the tightest possible match, this is not possible for any hobbyist building a kit and means that a kit can never get close to the consistency of a finished product.
        
        Again this does not necessarily mean that a Kit 03 would not be as good as or even better than a standard AN-E/SPe provided you can make a cabinet that is on par with our, which I doubt you can, as the production methods used have takes years to develop and there is much we do not disclose, but is it possible to get quite close if close tolerances are achieved."
        
        Quote ends.
        
        So, as you can see there are material differences between the finished products and the kits, and they do matter sonically, which is fairly easy to demonstrate if they are side by side, so in that sense you get what you pay for.
        
        Sincerely,
        Peter Qvortrup
        
        RE: Matching Speakers & Building Everything - limono 12:25:26 08/10/07 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Matching Speakers & Building Everything posted by Peter Qvortrup on August 10, 2007 at 08:11:38
        
        Dear Peter
        Seems like I misinterpreted one of your posts:
        
        "Just a correction, the speaker driver - crossover in the speaker kits 002 and 003 are matched to exactly the same parametsr as used in the AN-E/LX finished model, the drivers are not rejects ro some such.
        
        Just thought I would mention that.
        
        Sincerely,
        Peter Qvortrup "
        
        I hope you do not take my posts as an offense of any sort.While I'm into different things now ,having an all AN Setup is my retirement /retreat plan (if I live long enough;)
        Cheers, L
        
        RE: Matching Speakers & Building Everything - DRCope 14:16:47 08/12/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Matching Speakers & Building Everything posted by limono on August 10, 2007 at 12:25:26
        
        It may be as simple as confusing parameter with tolerance. All the drivers and speaker systems, Kits to Sogon, are evaluated for faithfulness to a master curve. That's a parameter.
        
        The most "faithful" of drivers make it possible to create a full speaker system that is within 0.2dB of the ideal. Other very good, but not quite as extraordinarily faithful, drivers can "only" be matched as part of full systems to the kit 0.6dB, no closer. 0.2 - 0.6dB is a range of *tolerance* measured along the same *parameter*.
        
        Both are pretty doggone tightly spec'd; none are anything like rejects.
        
        Keep your ears and your mind open.
        
        A further matter for consideration... - RGA 04:19:37 08/08/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Peter Van Wellinsward (sp?) of Stereophile owns the AN E... posted by limono on August 07, 2007 at 22:32:52
        
        "...and the factory of 50 yet they produce the best speakers, the best amps, preamps, transformers, cables,passive parts (caps resitors ) also the best turntables , cd-players and dacs. Quite an achievement I mean I'm about to pray to P.Q too..."
        
        First I think you're making the wrong assumption. A stereo system is ONE creation. Getting source material to the ears. The fact that many OTHER companies only make CD players is not exactly helpful - you have no idea what their "belief is" about sound quality.
        
        If I have an all AN system and I put in a different amp could it be better? Yes. If I put an AN piece in some other system could it be worse? - yes. In both cases it depends upon who is listening to it.
        
        But basic logic dictates that mixing different technologies, with varying levels of know how, by makers with different beliefs about how a stereo system should behave is far less likely to be "good" than a system that is designed from beginning to end.
        
        As for the names that mean nothing - then why does JA's name carry weight? He is incredibly inconsistent - first he supports the science then goes against it. He states that measurements don't correlate with sound but he will condemn products that don't measure well (even though they don't negatively correlate with the audition). This begs the question - if no one can hear the problem then it does not exist - and so whatever the measurement indicates is not indicate any sort of practical truth.
        
        I bring up Colloms because he is so obviously more of an expert in the field than JA is and the improper measurements that JA put to paper is one obvious truth to the matter.
        
        RE: Peter Van Wellinsward (sp?) of Stereophile owns the AN E... - RGA 22:59:21 08/07/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Peter Van Wellinsward (sp?) of Stereophile owns the AN E... posted by limono on August 07, 2007 at 22:32:52
        
        Okay but lets add and subtract a buit from the scripture.
        
        Firstly there is a saying that a jack of all trades will be a master of none. This is leveled against AN. But AN did not build everything from the ground up. My impression is that that AN has created SET amplifiers and DACs. That's it. The rest was bought, Initial R&D etc. So you buy out the masters of the others. You buy Voyd, Systemdeck, Philips transports, Snell Loudspeakers, Rega Tone arms, Goldring Carts. Make adjustments stick your name badge on it and there you go.
        
        PQ has stated that the matching process is not as close as production models...it says it on their UK kit site. I have personally heard a KIT E versus a production E and for me it's a significant difference in favour of the production model - so I can only gather that sopmeone at AN has the time to match or the kit builder messed up. But the builder in this case was a professional.
      - RE: Stereophile - Will shade 18:49:43 08/07/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Stereophile posted by pdogger on August 07, 2007 at 08:01:24
        
        Peter told me that Art didn't want to send the speakers back, he liked them so much, but I'm guessing he sent them (or will send them) after hanging on to them for a bit.
    - I agree but... - RGA 16:24:12 08/06/07 (0)
      the problem is for me that a lot of people put all their eggs into the measurements and thus I find it rather unfair and misleading for people to suggest that Audio Note is misleading people.
      
      For instance AN right on their website notes that specs are "in-room" results and must be corner loaded to achieve the bass and sensitivity ratings. Audio Note is providing a real world number in my view. SO the magazine tests it not in room not in a corner and then claims AN is misleading people.
      
      The silly thing is that AN is partnering 10 watt or less amps with these speakers so it's so blinking obvious that their efficiency rating are on the terrific side of the scale. And the bass is obviously deep and tuneful.
      
      The measurements are not that important here since they have yet to correlate with what one actually hears -- (SET for example measures badly but sounds better) but they certainly can be used to mislead people.
- Thanks Arthur! - Derek 20:03:29 08/04/07 (3)
  .
  - RE: Thanks Arthur! - Artur 12:16:42 08/07/07 (2)
    Hi Guys,
    Nice discussion any way ..;-)
    I'm struggling with my self with decision, to buy or not to buy AN drivers and build cabinet by my own and create appropriate crossover..
    
    Every were in internet guys from AN or sellers AN product says that Kit will be not equal to commercial version of AN speakers because of specific tests, measurements and tunings which are done in AN factory.
    
    Does it mean that all kits components, does not met rigorist requirements ??
    If so all kits component are more less rubbish ??? (sorry for rough sentence�)
    
    At which point kit can be worst than ready product ??
    Drivers, crossover, cabinet, final tuning. ???
    If crossover, cabinet, final tuning etc. make difference that�s is ok. I believe that AN has knowledge to do that perfectly and that is absolutely ok..
    But if They sells defective (which do not meet requirements) drivers that is scam �
    
    From my point of view if you will get orginal drivers, put a lot afford to perfectly copy cabinet and create crossover according to original one you must get this same sound !!!
    
    What do you guys think about this ???;-)
    
    PS. Sorry for my English , I hope you see my point..;-).
    
    Regards,
    Artur
    - RE: Thanks Arthur! - DRCope 17:03:08 08/07/07 (1)
      Arthur,
      
      You do get original drivers, crossovers, ports, stuffing, etc in the kits.
      
      One critical area in which kit and factory speakers are differentiated is in the matching to a reference set of response curves.In the factory, this is done with the drivers and xo in the cabinets they will be shipped in. As you move up through the levels, the matching tolerance gets tighter and tighter, cumlinating in the Sogon speakers which are matched to within .1 dB (yes, 1/10th of 1 dB). This takes an inordinate amount of time and a large supply of parts to choose from. While the kit drivers and xo's are matched, they obviously are not matched in the cabinets they will end up in, and are not quite as tightly matched as the factory speakers as the difference can be swamped by variations in cabinets.
      
      Building your own xovers using other parts and without the matching that goes into the kit sets will leave you a long way short of the actual kit speaker's performance.
      
      One other point of differentiation that's beyond the kit builder's scope is the way the front baffle is mounted. The factory baffle is cut exactly the same size as the opening it goes into. Obviously it can't fit into the opening, right? Logical, but wrong. The temperature of the baffle is taken way, way down, shrinking it juuuust enough to fit with a very thin bead of glue. When it comes up to room temperature, you've got an insanely tight bond between all parts. Since the cabinet is very much INcluded in Audio Note's overall speaker design, rather than EXcluded and subdued as in most speakers, it matters.
      
      At the end of the day, you get insanely great musical performance from Audio Note Kits. Don't let people freak you out about it.
      
      Keep your ears and your mind open.
      - RE: Thanks Arthur! - profbrookes 04:08:59 08/08/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks Arthur! posted by DRCope on August 07, 2007 at 17:03:08
        
        That's also how I understand it.
        
        Fortunately for me, I was able to buy a set of factory made speaker cabinets from Peter to go with my Kit03 speakers - and boy do they sound good!
        My speaker kit build (Open in New Window)

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