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In Reply to: idler value posted by analog guy on May 15, 2007 at 08:53:41:
Actually, at CES 2006, the Shindo room was the ONLY room playing vinyl that sounded right. So, considering all the megabuck tables, including several rooms running that Caliburn thing for $100K plus, maybe its not an ECONOMY thing but a SOUND thing that makes Shindo, et. al. worthwhile.Analog Guy, it really is time you spilt the beans and listed your system, etc, so we all can know where you are coming from. Disingenuous is not even close to a correct adjective for your approach to this forum. Given how much you post here, and your comments on equipment, what are you hiding?
Follow Ups:
I never meant to say any of my Rek O Kut turntables could ever sound like a Shindo. That would be presumptuous. I did say that a Shindo is the expression of what a 301 can become after 30+ years of improving every aspect of what a stock 301 was designed from and then taking that design to a completely different level of performance.Ferdinand Porsche did not invent the automobile. However he did perfect them.
Enrico Ferrari did not build a performace car, he defined racing performance for decades.
Carroll Shelby did not build a Mustang, he built racing legends built upon their platforms and that of the AC lineage as well.
There are tuners in every profession that take a design and move it to the ultimate performance it can achieve.
the fact that gear X had the "best sound @ CES" is not terribly meaningful, i'm afraid. most show sound -- and much "hi-fi" sounds dreadful.i've not argued the sonic merits of shindo 301 system -- simply that the idle craze started with people picking them up on the cheap and then they offered good bang for the buck. at $20k, regardless of the technology or manufacturer, the "value" term doesn't apply.
however, there ARE $20k analog systems that can sound good and others that sound, um, well "politely non-musical".
disingenuous? i think not. i've stated before in other threads (clearly you're watching) that i've come across idlers, belt-drives, and direct-drive analog-oriented systems that sounded good, as well as representatives of all 3 technologies that sounded abhorrent. also, i've found that just because someone has spent much money on a system, sadly, does not mean it reproduces music very well.
many -- but not all -- "vintage" systems that i've heard (some based around idlers) were very colored and "nostalgic". this is not altogether "bad" -- but people tend to fall in love with whatever they have.
disingenuous, perhaps, is you talking about "the best speaker system in the world" based on a field-coil driver that is all but unobtainable and not full-range (and you have a relationship with the folks that make speakers starting with a "C"...). I do give you that many idler systems play to the strength of the frequencies emphasized by such gear.
i've stated before that i have little interest in publicly posting my equipment. what difference does it make? if you are so curious, send me an email with a compelling reason and i would be much more likely to discuss it with you privately, if appropriate.
i tend to favor high quality (relative term, of course) tube gear. i use a LOMC. and i use a belt-driven turntable that sounds equally well (or poor, if you like) on all music and is rather neutral across the frequency spectrum.
It is time to list all your equipment.Your flagrant disregard of what people hear at a CES seems pretty tasteless to me. Just what is your experience with the ultra high end?
Make a good showing Analog Guy or simply shut up. Show us what you have and why anyone should care to listen to you.
At least I take my equipment on the road and show it off. It is not perfect it is not necessary that it be so. Each of my tables is a work in progress and a stepping stone to the next level.
But to cowardly say that Shindo's tables being the best of the show at the CES is unimportant seems to discount his achievements and the performance of his products.
Hopefully you can see how this appears to be sour grapes and disrespectful.
Somewhat like saying it doesn't matter if you show up to work on time.
Of course it does. If you don't show up you get fired.
Analog Guy......you are fired.
...it took you 3 tries to get one post (yes, each of your posts was emailed to me as you deleted them).the CES comment was not directed toward shindo, specifically, but, rather, that a manufacturer/retailer getting 'best sound at a show' is kind of like winning your town's beauty contest. on the one hand, you might be ms universe; on the other, your town might be full of hags.
witness: i think there were some years when krell gear won 'best of show' (back about 12-15 years ago, when i would still look at stereophile and believe what they had to say).
tubesforever (not that you have much respect around here): you can feel free to ignore my posts if you choose -- particularly if me listing my equipment is a requirement to what i have to say.
i've stated my reasons in the past for not wishing to list my system on a public forum. the same offer i made to mr weiss applies to you, too: if you have a compelling reason to know what i have and wish to make that case, send me an email. i'm more likely to correspond with interested parties via private mail.
then again, your reasons (so far) aren't compelling to me, and i don't think we have much to discuss.
sour grapes? nope. i've attained my level of music nirvana (may not be so for others) and don't do the audiophile dance of making changes based on the review du jour -- i simply listen to music.
good luck with your system!
and keep on working on that 'if you don't show up you get fired.' it doesn't make much sense.
again, feel free to tune out my posts if they don't suit what you are trying to accomplish.
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