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What is it about wood that makes it good for tonearms? The Da Vinci and the Schroder both use a variety of woods. I have not listened to either but they have great reputations. Plus they want a pile of money for them.Jim N
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...Instead I'm noticing the gimball pivot bearings. Apart from Triplanar who else is using gimball pivots these days?The armtube could be anything you want.
-Steve
user510's system
I'm assuming you are referring to the more expensive tonearms. There are still lots of more inexpensive arms with gimbals: mostly Japanese (Linn's Akito and AQ arms)as well as the Rega. Well, there's the Ekos, Breuer, SME's, but I understand your question: these are rather vintage designs. There's been a number of air bearing arms, unipivots, and numerous string based suspended arms, magnetic or silicon based which seem to get more press.
Hi Stu.
I noticed that the Da-Vinci is using 4 point pivot bearings (aka gimballs)like older designs from Thorens (tp16)or Helius, or Alphasons that use a "true" gimball design of pivot bearing. You know, the gyroscope look.The Regas, Linns and modern SME's are using 3-point pivots. I have seen these newer designs referred to as gimballs too so I understand your reply. I should have included the phrase "4-point" .
I would not know which is superior, 3-point or 4-point pivots. It would seem that the current manufacturers using the 3-point variety must be thinking that 3-point was more efficient. Or perhaps it is just easier to manufacture a 3-point than the 4-point.
-Steve
You call that a wooden arm?? :-))THIS is a wooden arm :-)) :
http://www.audioadvancements.com/tonearms/goldengate.htmlRegards,
It would be a hoot to hear them both mounted on the same 'table.
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If I had more money I'd soon be broke...but I'd have more LPs!
I've said it before - wood + Schroeder style magnet "bearing" is very DIY do-able. You may not get to da-vinci or Schroeder level, but it blows my Rega 300 away. I don't really understand too much of the intricacies- just experiment.
What does the magnet do? It looks as though the arm is suspended and balanced on a thread. Does the magnet just keep it centred?
Very strong Neodynium magnets in tone arm and base attract each other and create an arm "bearing". The space between the magnets has a significant effect on the "tightness" of the bearing, the damping of the arm, and therefore the sound. Like all utterly brilliant ideas, it's a "Why didn't I think of that" moment.The trick is getting the force between the magnets (and therefore VTF) constant across the LP from outer groove to inner. My first one varied by about 0.1g - close enough for a DL-103 maybe. The second one is much better - more like 0.02-0.03g. The magnets don't set the VTF, but the damping they cause effects it a lot, so it has to be very stable.
that suspends the arm. I put together a mule using 0.010 wire but it seemed too stiff.
Fishing line actually - the modern filament lines are remarkably thin and strong. I used 'Berkley Fireline" 0.3mm diameter 20lb line. I am sure that there are a hundred equivalent brands out there. IIRC, Frank S has hinted on various online forums that this is not a million miles from what he uses.
Would the magnets used in computer hard disk drive's head positioning systems be useful for a design like this? If so, I can try experiment with something like this for very little cost (not that magnets would cost much anyway I suppose).Playing around with things like this appeals to me. Might be my next project :-)
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Don't know about HD guts. 1 x R834DIA and a couple of R822-CS from hereset me back about $6. The secret for me was finding and using the diametrically magnetised ummm magnets...
This makes it much easier to get the magnets aligned properly - otherwise two disc magnets would need to be perfectly parallel with each other to get even VTF and azimuth across the record.
Send me an email if you want to discuss further
Jim,I've a Len Johnson's wood arm that I installed on my TD150 w/ wonderful results. It's nearly 30g mass but....
I found it much better match w/my DL103 and this table.
Chris Evans
in what way is it a better match?
the 29 gm effective mass.
there is so little talk about this arm on the net that I wanted to hear more from an owner.I talked to the builder and he is as non hi-fi/audiophile a person as you can get. But he has walked through several builds of this arm and hesays it is modelled after the Grado wood arm. His arm broke and the cost of repair cuased him to look into builing his own arm after the Grado.
One interesting point about it is that there are two inner sleeves for the vertical bearings that prevents you from locking the arm. There is one bearing in the base for the horizontal movement and two pins for the horizontal.
I don't know, I am tempted to try out the 16" and with a money back guarantee why not? When it is time for an arm on then plinth I am going to go for it.
O'MalleyYou are dead-on w/your description of Len. However, I am too not as much of a die-hard w/audiophila.
Let's just say that Len's rig is something he's held onto from the past. Mine is more current, and the arm still sounds great. I felt the arm matched well w/my Denon 103 first and foremost. I read somewhere that the 103 likes high mass arms.
Originally, my table had LVX Basik arm. So, I suppose you'll need to take that into consideration. Len built me a couple arm boards cut to the my specified dimensions.
Good luck. I am interested in the 12" arm as well. Just need a 124 to make it happen.
puts the resonance at about 11 Hz. I ain't giving up my ET2.
I am fitting a walnut rob to my ET2 arm, ie. take out the aluminium armtube and fit a ~ 3/8" walnut. I will report the result when it is done.
I can fully believe that the type of wood used to make acoustic string instruments make a difference in their sound. When it comes to tonearms I have my doubts. I find it hard to believe that the forces transmitted by the cantilever has any effect on the tonearm. The loads are to small and the mass is too great. The big forcing functions ( record warp) is don in the 1/2 to 2 Hz range.
I believe it is the wood tonearm together withe metal parts isolated the air-borne vibration from he listening room to the cart. As you had said the cart output is so low any vibration / energy transmitted from the tonearm will affect the sound.
Lack of unwanted resonances has been one reason cited. Ever seen the Altmann DIY unipivot arm?
It might be due to added resonances rather than elimination of resonances. Wood has complementary resonances in the audible range, and this is best exemplified in the composition of musical instruments. While most people seem to want toeliminate resonance, sometimes a complementary one can be very useful.
Absolutely agree. That and the fact that often nature can produce materials --- spiders' web, bamboo -- that are infinitely more complex and hi-performance than what we can grind in a mill.Your point is interesting -- "While most people seem to want to eliminate resonance," ......which cannot be accomplished with physics as we know it ...... "sometimes a complementary one can be very useful" which practice has been in consistent evolution at least since musical instruments came into being.
Bullseye.
J.D.
these swiss davinci arms are pretty nice looking, too
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groove
We seem to forget the laws of thermodynamics: 'energy can not be created or destroyed'.... We can alter their form and change the resonance points, but can not destroy it.I've heard a wooden tonearm built by Janos, who posts on the DIY forum, and it was shockingly good sounding even though a bit crude in appearance. He used an arrowhead for the unipivot bearing, IIRC, and it sounded way better than his stock Rega arm. As his wife explained, he went to the kitchen one night and pulled out a knife and began carving a piece of wood!
I believe we can learn a lot from instrument makers, who have experimented with different materials for many years, sometimes centuries.
Good points for sure.
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