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I'm, once again looking for turntable recommendations. I've been hosed about four times in a row now on ebay with either broken gear or shipping damage and I'm just about ready to decide there is some curse on me that's keeping me from simply getting a working turntable. Now I just want something inexpensive and simple....something that is reliable as hell and built reasonably well. I'm looking at Luxmans and Thorens decks at this point....or a Linn Axis, Ariston, or Heybrook if I could find a good deal on one. The Thorens decks I'm looking at are stuff like the TD147, TD145, TD166...stuff like that. The Luxmans are the PD-2xx stuff. I'm wondering which units are the best in those ranges...what I should avoid...any known problems. I'd really like a unit with auto shut-off and the other thing that's really important to me is dead-accurate speed. I'd like to spend under $300 used and I'll be using a Grado Prestige Silver. I prefer warm, rich, fat, smooth, and laid back to fast, bright, thin, and "detailed". I want something that would lean toward making any record sound good. Thanks in advance for any input.....
Follow Ups:
looking for a 3XX series deck. You should be able to find a TD 318 or TD 320 in your price range and still have room for a cartridge upgrade. I think this later series is utstanding and perhaps the best that the old Thorens made. I've been using a td321 which is essentially a TD 320 with a custom arm and I have np desire to upgrade. Just an outstanding deck. I also have a TD 166 mkII and their is no comparison for quality of build, suspension, tracking, and sound.
"warm, rich, fat, smooth, and laid back " , that spells Thorens to me...
Since my homepage has already been mentioned in this thread, i won't have to put up a link here. Yes i have a Luxman PD-284, gorgeous looking (high WAF!) and pretty good DD although the build quality is not as substantial as it looks. It suffers a little bit from "DD harshness" in the highs but i've heard worse. It has auto shut off and armlift.
I don't know, since you've had some bad deals on the 'Bay already, maybe look for a TT you can pick up locally and inspect yourself. DD TT have lots of electronics on board that might give you trouble. With Thorens you have to inspect the motor, motor shaft, main bearing, arm bearings, suspension. They're 30 to 35 years old.
Alternative: (i repeat myself): Pioneer Pl-12(D). Simple manual beltdrive TT, dirt cheap, the few things it has onboard are almost maintenance free and of high quality. Apart from a little motor noise it's as good as a Thorens TD165/166 IMHO, even better for pop/rock. I've gotten my hands dirty on 4 or 5 Pl-12(D)'s in the last few years, all of them were basically OK. Fleamarket price here in Holland: 5 to 10 euro. Add 5 euro for a new belt and at least 50 for a new cartridge (AT110). Hook it up to a nice vintage amp/receiver with a decent phono section or buy a good modern phono preamp.
"The torture never stops"
But unfortunately, the PD-12 series does not have auto-lift...correct?
Thanks for your post...how would I go about inspecting the motor, motor shaft, main bearing, arm bearings, suspension? I just found a Thorens TD125 w/ SME 3009 for sale locally I might check out.
...but I think the PL-12DII is the best bang for the buck table on the planet. It holds speed well, the arm is no slouch, it is well isolated and easy to make sound even better.First, remove all of the trim from the plinth that fancies up the cueing lever and the speed selector. Then put a ring of mortite around the underside of the platter. Remove the bottom plate and leave it open or replace with something substantial. Add spikes. Remove the cables and add a set of decent RCA jacks. Badda' bing' badda' boom the best sub $100 table around.
Dean.
Seriously, if you buy them both right you have nothing to lose monetarily and everything to gain otherwise.I've owned just about every iteration of the Thorens TD-160 type tables and have had the Luxman PD-264, 272, 277 and 289, of which the 272 seems to be the best. I know you are looking for a table with auto pick up, which the 272 is not, but rather than buying a 277 (which is), I would get a 272 and add something like an Audio Technica Safety Raiser.
The 272 is a seriously underrated table. Not many seem to know that the arm was supplied by Micro Seiki and called the TA-1. On those rare occasions when a Micro-Seiki TA-1 arm shows up for sale it usually sells for about twice what a complete 272 sells for. I've bought several 272 tables for the arm alone and in fact just bought another last week. Should it arrive in one piece I will remove the arm and put it on my Micro-Seiki BL-51.
So, my preference is for Luxman, but you should decide for yourself ...the Thorens tables have a lot going for them. Coincidentally, the best sound I ever got out of a Thorens (TD-160 Super) was with an arm I pulled off a Luxman PD-272.
Best of luck.
Have a look over at A-Gon there are a few Luxman's for sale right now. I have a PD-264/440MLa pretty nice combo.
EMPIRE 398 would teally fit the bill.A really nice one will run $300. 00 to $400.00
One that works perfect but cosmetics average a hundred or so less.
accurate speed, reliability equal to anything made.
I have five of them, two are MINT! MINT! Like TEN out of TEN! But they are pricey and not sure if I want to sell.
I might sell one if pushed.
These ship well if packed carefully. I have bought fifteen or so off Ebay without problems. Just be sure to instruct how to pack.
Well, that's interesting because I really wanted an Empire originally. However, I was under the impression that on basically every Empire model except the 698, the original arms were crap. In any case, I ended up buying a 698 on ebay that was shipped to me wonderfully and guess what? The motor runs fast...and yes, I have the correct belt. So after this experience, I've sort of lost enthusiasm for Empires. It seems the ultra-reliable are not so reliable after all.....
If the belt did not come from alexatlier it is not the correct belt.
I have a great deal of respect for Joel at the TT factory but a few years ago, I got a belt
that he said was the correct one for Empire
and it made it run fast.
"The motor runs fast...and yes, I have the correct belt."How much too fast? You could get unlucky and encounter this same problem with an old Thorens (unless it's something like TD125/126 with pitch control).
I've had 2 TD150MkII. The first ran approximately 1% too fast and the second one was dead on correct.
A friend of mine has a TD160Super that also ran a bit fast. He solved this by carefully sanding down the diameter of the pulley with some very fine sandpaper (one needs to be very careful and precise obviously).
The smaller Luxman DD's are actually relatively inexpensive here in Denmark where I live compared to what I've seen elsewhere (not that it's any good to you).
Less that perfect speed precision (let's say within 1%) is actually less important compared to stuff like wow & flutter (so I've been told). Maybe some of us are more sensitive to this than others. But it sure is nice to know that the pitch is dead on - it bothers me too if it isn't (I have a Lenco).
It seemed to me that my CD-player was running too slow back when I had my first TD150MkII (the one that was too fast). I listened to vinyl mostly and my brain got used to that and told me that the CD-player was "slow". :-)
I've owned both Lux tables mentioned here, and have seen and/or heard a wide variety of Thorens. It's a shame used luxes aren't a bit cheaper, because they can be a revalation.The page below discusses the simple & inexpensive pd 284 ....
http://members.home.nl/fmunniksma/Luxman.htm
The PD277 in the above photo is more expensive, and a great deck, weighty and direct sounding, while still a touch of warmth in the tone.
The prob is that the Thorens tables are--- maybe not better in fit and finish, though impeccable there, but --simply more substantial machines, something that matters 5, 10 or 15 years after a turntable has been manufactured.
And various support groups have grown around restoring the Thorens gear, while the Lux DD stuff is more difficult in restoration terms.
So I'd vote the Thorens, check the models against the Analog Dept and the SoundFountain sites recommendations and tweaks.
Site mentioned above is vinyl inmate "Munkie NL's" page.Have a look.
*
groove
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