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Enzyme-based cleaner mentioned in a recent copy of one of the audio mags I read. Looked on their web site. Unbelievably, they maintain that enzymes "die" after a few hours and are then not effective.Enzymes are proteins, biological catalysts. They are not alive, so how can they die. Who would put out such drivel?
Follow Ups:
"Organic" catalyst would be correct. Inferring a living system-so I guess "biological" is OK, too. I would just like to know what the name and structural formula of the enzyme(s) is/are along with the formula of the materials that are being acted on. An exzyme works by providing a surface on which reactacts come in close proximity with one another. This then lowers the activation energy level to such an extent as to allow for a chemical reaction to occur that brings forth a new compound(s). I guess it is the water rinses that gets rid of the residue. Everyone seems to be under the impression that it is mold release that is the culprit that must be removed in order to attain audio nirvana. I'm willing to wager that there is more than mold release involved, however. But, because of the proprietary nature of the Walker material, we will never know. I can only suppose that they figured it out.
It's probably a mixture of several enzymes that may or may not include some sort of thermostable lipase, some form of subtilisin (the enzyme that's used in detergents such as Era), and likely some phosphotase. The permutations are too many and probably not worth trying to figure out... try the darn thing and see if it works.
Since a typical enzyme consists of a chain or several chains of hundreds of amino acids covalently linked to each other, the "chemical formula" would be quite complex and lengthy. If we knew what enzyme Walker was using, its amino acid sequence could probably be accessed via the internet, but it wouldn't really tell us anything we'd need to know. I've had a Prelude kit sitting at home for about a month now; guess I ought to try it out in view of the rave reviews.
You are absolutely right, the formulas for any enzyme would be horrendously huge. I guess I was thinking ahead of what I was writing. I really would like to know what reactants the enzyme(s) are supposedly working on. What is the enzyme material trying to change or alter so that it might be removed? That was my real question. If you have some of this stuff, give it a try and let's get at least two reviews from asylum members. If this stuff turns out to be the next best thing to sliced bread, maybe I'll go for it too.
I don't know about what dies or does not die but several weeks ago I did a listening comparison between the Disk doctor cleaner I have been using for the past four years and the new 3 step Prelude process I just purchased.To make a long story short the prelude does sound superior to the two step Disc doctor product. The sound was noticeable clearer with the prelude and presented a more vivid musical presentation. One of the first things I noticed using the prelude besides the cleaner sound was the improved bass. The bass was very well defined with great impact and authority. The DD cleaner was a bit smudged in comparison and had a layer of grunge that was very apparent. I strongly suspect the improved sound was primarily due the prelude enzymes effectively removing the mold release on the vinyl.
For me it’s prelude all the way now. Believe me when I say you can not hear what is in the groves of your records until this Teflon mold release is removed and this is coming from a very happy and long time disc doctor user. The difference is big enough I will to begin to reclean all of my favorite records in my collection with prelude system. I really hate to have to go back and reclean again but after hearing the beautiful clarity and purity of the music revealed in it’s full glory there is no looking back now.
Did you merely rewash your records you had already cleaned with Disc Doctor? Or did you get 2 equivalently dirty, uncleaned records? Or did you buy 2 brand new copies of the same record and use each system to clean them?If was the first, then did you reclean equivalent records using the Disc Doctor on some and the Walker Audio on the others?
I was going to write a fuller review later on the prelude but a quick answer is I looked thru my 2000+ record collection and found Idenical promo 12" singles that were untreated with idenical matrix numbers. One record in paticular was a steely dan double sided "12" promo single with "Aja" on both sides. I listened to the promos prior to cleaning to make sure they sounded excatally the same and again all records were Untreated prior to being cleaned. I cleaned one side with DD the the other side with Prelude then did a a/b listening on my Basis 2500/Vector 4 combo. I was very carefull to select idenical promos. 99.8% of my record collection was unusable for this test even though I have numerious copies of many of the same records but they all sounded different or were previously cleaned so they could not be used for this evaluation. I really wanted to know if prelude was superior to DD or if I just wasted $90. The difference surprised me as I have been a happy Disc Doctor user for years.
That explanation was helpful and useful too! I may have to try the Prelude system. I hate to buy full strength water over the 'net as you pay alot for full strength water. As it is, I have a sophisticated water treatment system which includes reverse osmosis.Part of the improvement in your results may be the result of using the better water that Walker Audio provides. I assume that you use tap water for the Disc Doctor or are you using fully treated reverse osmosis water? The result of the water treatment I use is water without minerals and chemicals. Using tap water will result in minerals and chemicals (such as chlorine) left in and on your record. Well water may not have the chemicals but it has the minerals.
For the Disc doctor cleaning I used regular distilled water purchased at the grocery store for about $1. The walker Prelude system does use a much higher grade of distilled water that says "Laboratory grade" on the label. Lloyd told me over the phone he manfactures his own distilled water to very high purity standards which is much more expensive and more time consuming than standard distilled water. This is the same water that is used to mix the active enzymes that come in powder form when you purchase the prelude kit. The active enzymes are effective for several hours after you do the water mix so any excess unused material muse be thrown away afterwards.
I'm not a scientist. I suppose it's sufficient. Reverse osmosis treatment (in addition to many other necessary filtration steps) is the most supreme water filtration. This is what is used in hospitals. But for record cleaning? It may be more than necessary. In any event, I probably will try it my next go 'round.
Any protein-based catalyst can be denatured and rendered inactive. The conditions required depend on the enzyme, but often oxidation (hydrolysis of disulfide bridges which help maintain secondary structure), temperature, detergents and organic solvents will render enzymes inactive.
Most laundry detergents contain amylases and/or proteases, so the idea of including an enzyme with a commercial detergent is hardly new.The idea is that the enzymes will break down the proteins and/or starches at a lower temperature - or with less agitation. If you go and buy "HE" detergents for your clothes, they will certainly contain enzymes.
I don't know why people are getting bent out of shape on this one.
Enzymes DO "die". There are so many ways that enzymes lose their activity over time or due to the presence of inhibitors, that I decided not to try to describe them all in this post. If enzymes were immortal, we all might be immortal too. If you ever studied biology at all, you should know that enzymes are more or less fragile, i.e., any given enzyme will have its own properties with regard to stability and maintenance of its activity. Some are hardier than others. But Walker Audio is not trying to deceive you; no enzyme lasts forever.
Any molecular biologist worth his/her salt would tell you that enzymes do *not* in fact die because they are not alive. Heck, any molecular biologist could also tell you that much more complicated biological entities such as viruses are also not alive.
Interesting. Enzymes are proteins used as catalysts in chemical reactions. They are not biological entities. They do lose effectiveness but certainly don't die.
I would call a protein a biological entity. A very few very small proteins can be synthesized in vitro but most are derived from living systems. I use the term "die" as one would use the phrase "lose their effectiveness". Since most enzymes ex vivo will not regain activity once it is dissipated, I think it's fair to say they do die. The point is that the statement in the Walker Prelude brochure (as reported here) is not incorrect and does not suggest a scam.
Biological? I'd call'em organic compounds and leave it at that. I really don't think Walker is trying to pull of some nefarious scheme. It's probably some marketing "brilliance" (there's an oxymoron) at play. Nothing like the Guinness brilliance!
Do you accept my simple point that enzymes do degrade and lose their activity over time and depending upon temperature and reaction conditions? That's all I was trying to say. Enzymes are not "immortal". Even stored as a dry powder, as in the Prelude kit, an enzyme will eventually lose activity, altho I presume that whatever enzyme they use is relatively stable in powder form.
Henry
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Perhaps "no longer effective" should have been the words used...but how the hell would I know...I died 247 years ago and have been kept alive through the wonders of alchemy.
****
If I had more money I'd soon be broke...but I'd have more LPs!
nt
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Like turning gold into vinyl?
Jeff
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