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In Reply to: Technics SP15 vs. VPI Scout posted by PassiveO on May 4, 2007 at 22:58:39:
Every Scout I have ever heard sounds basically decent to me. However I would describe the sound as light footed. Some will definitely like the VPI sound since as you mention the detail of the music is well served.With my Rek O Kut idler tables the bass will be substantially deeper. The midbass will have growl. Palpable presence is a term that comes to mind. Midrange is right there. No fooling around. A singer has flesh and bones and tendons and sinew.
More importantly, the music will slam. The idler simply seems to deliver more of what the master recording had to offer.
The SP15 sounds good because it is extremely precise on speed accuracy. The SP15 is very close to world class speed accuracy. This is why you are hearing the transient attack quality you mention.
You should definitely look into an idler if you want the best of what the VPI and the Technics are delivering.
Just my two cents worth.
Monetarily, my Rek O Kuts have generally cost less than 250 dollars to build. Hang on a great tonearm and cartridge and you are off to the races.
Follow Ups:
I have the ScoutMaster w/ Dyna 20xl run through a Wright WPP 100. I sounds nothing like you describe. The music certainly isn't light footed. The bass is much better than my Theta Miles cdp, which is known for its deep, tight bass. The SM beats the Miles in weight and bass every time. Even playing MoFi cd's, the regular LP pressing will kill the Miles in weight and bass
I haven't heard the Scout. But what you are describing sounds like a poorly set up Scout on insufficient platform with a mediocre cartridge playing through a mediocre phono preamp. Either that or all those who own one plus Michael Fremer and S'phile, who give the scout very high marks are sadly mistaken.
Life has lots of trials and lots of music to help us through them.
Like I said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the flavor of a VPI as long as you like it.There are a great number of VPI owners on the asylum. I am not trying to start any flames.
I'd love to try an idler style table. However, every time I look up rek-o-cut I find what appear to be plasticky units. Can you suggest a model or components?
And say to yourself, my albums do not sound like that! What you were hearing was the contribution of an idler drive. Bass flat out slams you down, midbass growls and roars and the midrange will be so life like you cannot imagine why your consumer record player got it so thin.I was basically a belt drive and direct drive guy until I decided to try an idler project of my own. When growing up I had an idler table to play with. However in my teens I moved toward stereo phono decks thinking the old idler was compromized or outdated. Boy was that ever wrong. My Dad's system used an old Garrard model 98. This was an idler with drop down LP and 45 spindles for stack play.... Don't worry all my friends convinced me to play one at a time.
The sound of this table was incredible, but it was not until I was 47 years old that I understood why.
Thanks to other inmates here they gave me the desire and confidence to try an idler drive. I chose the Rek O Kut from a personal recommendation from our own Fred J. He was right about every little detail of the Rek O Kuts.
They are all metal. No plastic whatsoever except the engagement knob on the LP 34,37, and 743 models.
I believe no turntable can sound better than its main bearing. The cast iron 1/2 inch bearing is superb. The cast iron naturally attenuates resonance. With just a polish on the main bearing and a 4 dollar silicone nitride bearing you are in 5k dollar turntable territory for bearing quality and I think the Rek O Kut is probably more indestructable than all the others.
The main platter is machined to a tolerance that is extremely accurate. It is a 7lb nicely cast and machined aluminum piece that contributes to the bass slam and growl to be sure.
I will post pictures of my new LP-34 I am building this week. I am not sure I will have time to finish it before I head to the far west to meet with MintVinyl and ScottRT next weekend, but I will have a fully functioning thread drive together for them to hear.
These projects can bring you a sound quality that is really superb in every way.
Again I like both VPI and Technics brands. They deliver good results. But if you are after everything that is recorded into the groove then check out an idler.
The Rek O Kut is the model to play with. You can always try a Garrard 391/401 down the line if you need the prestige factor.
Sounds like something right "up my alley." My impressions of Rek O Cut cam from the link below. Guess I should be looking for a vintage iteration.
Rek O Kuts are FAAAAARRRRR from plasticky or poorly built, at least not the models I'm thinking of. Now you definitely don't want to use the plinth they come in. THAT is usually slapped together. The table itself is built like a tank. It uses a 1/2" cast iron bearing, a deep (I think) 7lbs aluminum platter and a motor the size of an oil can. I have an L-34. This is a great table, and also the only one I've heard. There's also the B12 and 734 that are pretty common. I think Tubes has all of these models so I'll let him talk to them. I'm sure he'll respond soon. I think I've heard him say the B12s are less desireable but I have no thoughts on that. I think the 34 and 743 are very similar except that 743 does 33 1/3 and 78 whereas the 34 does 33 1/3 and 45.I think any of those models are fine. There are probably more. Tubes or Mosin will have better thoughts on those than me.
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