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In Reply to: Re: For those who complain about LP prices...... posted by John Elison on April 28, 2007 at 20:04:41:
I have finally gotten "some" CD playback that is listenable without pain. The very best CDs (there are so few) only make it to position 13. As far as Digital the better SACDs at position 5 can often get about 80% of the glory of the best analog but it is not possible for the lowly CD!In my system, the best sound (on average) is as follows:
1) Real Time duplicated 7½ IPS pre-recorded Reel to Reel tape such as those by Sound Ideas, Ambisonic, Sonic and Direct To Tape Company. 15 IPS would be even better but I can't play 15 IPS, all four of the above companies also offer 2 Track 15 IPS reels.
2) The better audiophile LPs from real audiophile companies such as Reference Recordings, Speakers Corner, Analogue Productions, Classic Records, etc.
3) Real Time duplicated audiophile Cassettes such as MFSL, Aesthetic Audio, Audible Images, Sound Ideas, In Sync Laboratories, etc.
4) Most slow speed duplicated pre-recorded Reel to Reels from the mid 50's to 1960's.5) The better SACDs especially from DSD or Analog masters.
6) The better DVD-Audios from 24Bit 96kHz or 192kHz PCM masters or analog masters.
7) The better pre-recorded commercial cassettes.
8) The later 1970's pre-recorded Reel to Reels.
9) The better HDCD CDs especially from Reference Recordings.
10) The better commercial LPs.
11) SACDs from low resolution 24 Bit 48kHz PCM or lower masters.
12) DVD-Audios from low resolution 24 Bit 48kHz PCM or lower masters.
13) The better CDs especially those from Telarc, Reference Recordings (non-HDCD), etc.
14-100) Poorly mastered recordings in any format. LP, Reel to Reel, Cassette, CD, HDCD, SACD or DVD-Audio. CD seems to have the most poorly mastered recordings but LP is close behind.
While I have listenable and sometimes enjoyable CD playback with perhaps the top 0.01% of CDs made. The percentage of fantastic LPs is closer to 1% to 2% of all LPs made, and over the years I am getting better at picking the right ones. And the best LPs sound so realistic and with a feeling of "being there" that even SACD cannot match. The best CDs by comparison sound like good recordings nothing more. Only the top LPs, Cassettes, Reel to Reels, SACDs and LPs could ever fool me into believing I am hearing real musicians in my listening room. I do not believe CD will ever be able to do this, of course I didn't believe that any CD would ever be listenable. Perhaps in another 20-30 years? I really doubt it though; it's just too much to ask poor CD to do. YMMV.
"Music is love"
Teresa
Follow Ups:
Interesting list. For me the best recordings I have are some prerecorded R2R tapes, then recordings I made of solo violin, violin with cello and violin with piano on my R2R. Then I would have to say the better lps from the labels you mentioned but with one exception: I have Wagner "The Valkyries" on Decca from 1965 with Georg Solti conducting. Amazing good recording on what Decca called their "Royal Sound" Stereo. Are you familiar with these Deccas? The middle label is actually Black with a small Crown on the left side. They are one of the very few Classical Lps that don't have distortion on crescendos so the stay clean even at full blast. Nice but I am not a huge Wagner fan...too bombastic.
But make sure they are NOT pressed in the USA. I prefer the UK and German Decca LP pressings. As you mentioned many Decca's have no strain on climaxes plus they have a "warm" ambiance with good solid bass and nice imaging and stereo spread. Some of the Phase 4 LPs are not so good, too many microphones, the one exception is the recordings of Bernard Herrmann. I love the Bernard Herrmann Decca's of him conducting his film music.Basically the early London/Deccas from the 1950-1960's are the best IMHO. Also I prefer London/Deccas on 7 1/2 IPS Reel to Reel but the LPs are pretty good too.
"Music is love"
Teresa
I said:1) Real Time duplicated 7½ IPS pre-recorded Reel to Reel tape such as those by Sound Ideas, Ambisonic, Sonic and Direct To Tape Company. 15 IPS would be even better but I can't play 15 IPS, all four of the above companies also offer 2 Track 15 IPS reels.
Should read:
1) Real Time duplicated 7½ IPS pre-recorded Reel to Reel tape such as those by Sound Ideas, Ambisonic, Sonar and Direct To Tape Recording Company. 15 IPS would be even better but I can't play 15 IPS, all four of the above companies also offer 2 Track 15 IPS reels.
I apologize for calling "Sonar Recording Corp." Sonic instead on Sonar. I missed it on the final proof reading.
"Music is love"
Teresa
With all those comparisons going on, do you ever just listen to music for fun and enjoyment?And why is it necessary to establish a hierarchy like that? If I worried that much about how it sounds, I'd be a nervous wreck.
when mentally reliving the experiences. In most formats I got lost in the music and am unable to do it at that time except to make mental notes on what one format can or cannot do that another can. In a perfect world I would be able to buy all the music I love on real time duplicated 15 IPS Reel to Reels at a reasonable price and own a machine to play them. But since this is not possible every single format has it’s own set of compromises I find owning multiple formats my answer to this dilemma.Historically for me CDs have been almost impossible to endure, it is only recently that my some miracle that CD playback took a giant leap forward into the area of listenablity, something I thought was totally impossible mainly do to CD's brickwall filter and other issues of 44.1kHz. But CD is not high fidelity yet and may never be. On the other hand if Blu-Ray does double speed DSD as some are saying we may just get a digital format that can give get close to the realism of analog.
The point I am trying to make is the best CDs are poor in comparison to the best LPs. CD almost a total and complete joke. At least on the new Yamaha players the PAIN is gone; this was not possible with even extremely expensive transports and separate DA converters of the past. 2006 may be know as the year this all changed if other companies use the techniques Yamaha has to kill “Digitalis” in CD. I can’t wait for this to make it to the high end. Imagine a high end CD player with all the resolution of a high end CD without the PAIN! We might even get CD playback up to the level of analog cassette. I’m not holding my breath but it may just happen. Only the future can revel this for us.
The reason I got the Yamaha universal is not for is “listenable” CD playback but for the SACD and DVD-Audio playback which get me about 80% of the realism of analog and offers music and musicians not available on any analog format. The fact that is CD playback was listenable was an unexpected bonus.
The fact that I own and listen to nearly every format (except 8 Track and Elcasette) puts me in a unique position to make these comparisons.
Analog: LP, 7½ IPS Reel to Reel and Cassette
Digital: CD, HDCD, SACD, DVD-Audio and 24/96 DAD
"Music is love"
Teresa
Just reading about it makes me nervous.
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