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Now that I finally decided on a new turntable (I had a tough time deciding between Thom’s Serac/Gavia and the DPS table), I am looking to try out some new cartridges.I have been a big fan of the Denon DL103R and used one for the last 10 years, but I am looking for some change. I like the big bold sound of the Denon, but would like something that offers better transients, a quicker sound with more detail while still keeping a natural tonal balance.
Willi (of DPS) highly recommends the Lyra Dorian as a well-balanced, quick and detailed cartridge. Another line that I would really love to try is the ZYX line (Bloom or R100 Yatra). From descriptions, the ZYX sound does seem to be along the lines that I would like to try (highly resolving and dynamic but natural sound). Is the Bloom a good representative of the ZYX sound or do I have to move up the ZYX line?
Setup is going to be:
- DPS 2 turntable
- Schröder No.2 (improved with Reference Magnets/Pertinax Wand)
- Until the Schröder arrives I have a modded and rewired RB250
- Wright Phono + Lundahl/Cinemag step up transformersThanks in advance for all comments and help.
Rene
Die gefährlichste Weltanschauung ist die Weltanschauung derjenigen, die die Welt nicht angeschaut haben.
Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859)
Follow Ups:
hello,
night & day between rega arm & schroder.. congratulations.but now that you are moving higher, expect to find more trouble
mating the different pieces of the puzzle. if you want to upgrade your cartidge, you will have to make a decision about getting a better quality stepup or getting a mc fet stage.most of the lower priced mc cartridges really work better with fet stages rather than trannies... so if you prefer the musicality of trannies, you need to move slightly higher up the mc chain. and then upgrad your tranny to match. ouch.
the lundahl trannies are musical, priced right.... but, like most
low-end trannies they eat up information.the dorian has 0.6 output... i would use it only with fet stage. not worth mating it with cheaper tranny.
check to see if the bloom comes in the low-output version(.24)...that would make it more suitalbe for stepup.
a suggestion: think of
getting a klyne mc head amp (not the full full fuction phono). they come up audiogon every 5 months or so.. this would allow you to keep your mm-tube phono stage. and it would be compatible with almost any mc cartridge. klyne is a great company and its products are reliable and musical.if you want to stick with stepups, expecpt to spend a lot more time & money to get it right. stepups typically mate with cartridge on a case by case basis. can be heaven or hell. certainly, if you choose the stepup route, you will have to consider cartridge+stepup together. in my experience, it is better to go mc fet way than use cheap stepups. rather than use cheapup stepus better to go back to MM. ultimately, if you like the stepup route, you will need to move to the level of things like ortofon t3000.
in your situation,
i would think moving to ortofon jubilee (would probably be significantly better than bloom or dorian) and getting the ortofon T-20 tranny (which is fairly priced). later you could upgrade the tranny to ortofon t-2000/t-3000/t-5000. by the way, jubilee goes for $1100 from 2juki and is the by far the best cartridge buy.mc cartridge + tranny is hard to get right.. you maybe need to experiment a lot. if you dont have the time & money, you should consider known mc+stepup combinations that work.
sorry for the disjointed nature of this email abd bad english..it took longer than i have time.. you are actually
embarking on a fairly complex project.
rgd
munna
Your advice contradicts my experience. I have MU step up. It works well with every cart I've tried. DL103r, 17d3 and Shelter 501.
I would have thought the same: the cinemag are quite flexible with respect to gain an should fit a wide variety of cartridges (similar to the Mu). That together with the Lundahls should be a good starting point.Interesting collection of cartridges, how do the Shelter and Dyna compare to the DL103R? I just heard the Shelter last night on an Avid Diva/SME IV setup. It does seem to have similar strengths as the Denon, while adding another level of refinement. I would have to mount my DL103R on his table to detect the differences in detail though.
Die gefährlichste Weltanschauung ist die Weltanschauung derjenigen, die die Welt nicht angeschaut haben.
Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859)
I have a Schroeder DPS tonearm with a DL 103R with wood body.It is a perfect match.You haven't heard how good the Denon actually can be unless you give it a try in your Schroeder arm.I like my wooden 103R in the Schroeder better than my Benz LP that's in the drawer now for quite a while.
Since you know the sound of your DL103R so well, I would wait until you hear it in the context of the new setup (arm and table) before spending any money on its replacement.Not because I think you should stay with the Denon, but for what it will tell you about the "next" cartridge you buy. For instance, if your DL starts sounding dry and analytical, or lush and organic then you know what direction to take your next purchase.
Or, what you may find is the DL103R is elevated by the new setup and what you need is as you described - better transients, a quicker sound with more detail.
But until you hear the 103 in context you're shooting blind...
Oh, and congrats on a really, really (did I say really?) fine setup!
Pete, thanks very much for the thoughtful posts.I know you are right - I should really give my trusted Denon a try first, before jumping to another cartridge. Especially since the DL103R is an excellent cartridge. You are also right that in this setup I should see much more of the potential of the Denon. It would be good for me to get another point of reference sometime in the future, since I have been relying on the DL103R heavily so far.
Also, thanks for your kind comments on my setup.
With best wishes,
Rene
Die gefährlichste Weltanschauung ist die Weltanschauung derjenigen, die die Welt nicht angeschaut haben.
Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859)
i know the desire to get an all-new setup, but...since you are familiar with this cartridge, i think you should install it on your new table/arm. it will reduce the number of variables that are changing at one time. you will be more likely to learn the character of the table and arm relative to your current setup, and then when you DO make a change to a new cartridge you will certainly understand the changes introduced by JUST swapping the cartridge.
it may be a little less exciting, but i'm a big believer in understanding what is happening at each step along the way. you're still changing 2 things at once, and it could be that the cartridge is not a good match for the tonearm -- but given the circumstances i think that is the most controlled experiment you can do.
it also could work out that your DL103R on your new table/arm leaves you completely satisfied, so you save that that expense. alternately, even if you do decide to move on, you save yourself money by deferring the purchase of a new cartridge (=time value of $$).
I will certainly live with the Denon for a while in the new setup before mounting another cartridge. I am not a fan of doing too many changes at a time as well. I usually change max one or two things and live with them for a several months, before the next change.The main reason to pick one of the mentioned cartridges now is that I can pick them up much cheaper right now (travelling to the US for while) than in half a year. The 14% taxes + duty + brokerage fees in Toronto can be a killer. Also, ZYX is scheduled for a price increase :(. Otherwise I would probably wait longer.
Die gefährlichste Weltanschauung ist die Weltanschauung derjenigen, die die Welt nicht angeschaut haben.
Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859)
...but a deal on the "wrong" thing is not such a deal after all. a kind soul (me) could always order something for you and ship it to you to help you out! :)
I still wish I would have bought a Shure V 15 VxMR when they were $250 new. I would have at least liked to listen to one. Now I they sell used for $350....Interestingly so far I have not made much or any loss on any analog item except for the one DL103 I killed a few years ago :(
Die gefährlichste Weltanschauung ist die Weltanschauung derjenigen, die die Welt nicht angeschaut haben.
Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859)
Matching your cartridge to your tonearm is quite important. I'm not sure how long you expect to wait for your Schroeder tonearm, but the cartridge you expect to be "ideal" for your Schroeder may not be the same as the ideal cartridge for the RB250.Just something to consider.
Thanks and point taken....tonally I would expect some difference between the two arms. On paper both have a similar effective mass (around 11-13g), so that the resonance characteristics will be similar.Interestingly Willi recommends the Dorian for both arms. Also, both arms (Schroeder and Rega) work with a wide variety of cartridges so that I am still confident. However, I am afraid that the DPS/Rega/Dorian combination might be a little on the dry, detailed side for my taste.
Also, I am prepared to go through some trial and error, as things also depend on the rest of the system (Fi Super X + Cain Abby).
Die gefährlichste Weltanschauung ist die Weltanschauung derjenigen, die die Welt nicht angeschaut haben.
Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859)
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