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First of all many thanks to Texanater for all his help and info on the Technics SL-1210.Okay, here goes: deep breath.... I have the good fortune to have a friend who is offering me a Rega P9 at an unbelievable low price. I should just jump at it, right? But wait, I've been coveting for a long time a Technics SL-1210 from KAB. I have no knowledge of the Rega P9, sound or technical. I do know a bit about the Technics. I play a great deal of ROCK! Very loud Rock on my Tyler Acoustics PD-15s (Horn with 15'' woofer).
Do I go for the P9 or the Technics? I want the audiophile finesse, but I want rock solid control as well, Does the P9 do both? Does the 1200 have any finesse at all and all the audiophile things we covet? I know you can't get it all for $625.00.
Follow Ups:
Buy the P9 as an investment. If it turns out you don't like it sell it on epray and with the profits you can then afford a whole fleet of used SL-1200's.
I bought the P9 last night. It even was delivered to me by my good friend. Wow! what a platter, Ceramic-heavy, huge separate power supply. Haven't installed the cartridge yet.A fine purchase is when you really feel good about it the end. I'll give a full review. But I'm sure there's nuff said already and I wouldn't want to bore with redundancies.
Much thanks to you, and all for your time.
From looking at the picture, I had no idea the P9 cost $4500. It looks like less to me.
I'll bet there are better performing turntables out there for that kind of money. Of course, I'm just guessing. I've never evaluated a P9, but it doesn't appear to be very interesting.
I think if I were spending that kind of money, I would simply buy a brand new SME 309 tonearm for $1800 and then look for a good $2700 turntable to complete the system. I would never buy a used turntable online, but I would buy a refurbished turntable from the original turntable manufacturer. That way I could be assured of getting an undamaged turntable because it will be packed properly for shipment. In other words, I would buy a refurbished SOTA Star with vacuum hold-down and I might even have some money left over for LPs.
Anyway, that's my best recommendation!
I got the same perception upon looking at the pictures I've seen a few and including the one you just posted, many thanks! But when it appeared on my kitchen table last night, WHOLE different story here. Bear with me I can't really talk the tech talk, I'm just a dumb singer.The sub-platter assembly looks like something you'd see in surgery-medical grade precision. I've never seen one like it. And the main platter. I've been told the ceramic compound and extreme pressures needed to create this thing would be worthy of a spot on Modern Marvels on the History Channel. It's very heavy for a platter.
Of course these are just visual cues, not really technical is it? So I'll just to keep some dignity and stop here. I'll let you know about what really matters, sound ,later today
Thanks for your time and energy on this, The P9-Technics insane question was answered, Hands down for the Rega.
Having heard both side by side, I'd personally choose a P 3 over a Technics. The P9 is one of the best reasonably priced 'tables I've heard. It has more than enough audiophool finesse for any music lover, and better rhythmic drive and energy than around 97% of the 'tables in my experience, regardless of price. No masturbatory "tweaking" or "upgrade path" required; Regas are a finished, holistic product right out of the box. Just be sure to use a good light, rigid support like a Neuance shelf or Ikea Lack, as these 'tables are very placement sensitive.
Rega makes a very affordable dedicated wall mount as well.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
How much will you pay for it?Tubes is a Rega hater, so factor that in with whatever else he tells you.
This is really the insane part: $1200 with curly maple wood frame. It's the older version (2002 I think) with 900 arm. I just didn't have a clue on what actually manifest itself when you sit and listen. The hardware, name, are a given on it. I just thouht in the end the Technics would be more reliable. But I can't really get any specifics in a sonic review on the actual sound of the Technics, just hardware info mostly.Many thanks to you and everyone with there responses and good advice.
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It is an insane question. As good as the Technics is, and it's a great table, go with the P9 for Gods sake! Rega understands turntables. While your at it, see if you can find a Rega Exact2 cart to go with it. Supreme music makers.
Almost insane. If you're going to mount a cartridge worthy of the R9's tonearm and if the rest of your system is excellent, it won't even be close.
Lucky YouI would also take an RB1000 for cheap for my Technics and be real happy !!!
to recoup the cost buying the Technics upon selling it. That is, if the P-9 is not to your liking and you sell it, then it may well be worth having the Rega for a while just to experience it. I would :-) In the long run you may even come out ahead, and you can use the surplus to purchase more lp's.
These will kick butt on Rock and give you midrange detail and finesse all at the same time.My Rek O Kuts cost me an average of under 100 dollars. Build a plinth and hang on a decent cartridge and tonearm.
I can send you a CDR of my Rek O Kut if you want to hear a CD of the thing. This is not a perfect test. But you can see if the bass quality and finesse are what you hope to achieve.
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I am fearless when it comes to trying stuff. I like to DIY...Others cannot change a light bulb or use a screw driver....Viva la difference.
I think the only new table I would buy would be the Technics. Then again I'm nowhere in the price range of a P9. Its not even a dream I have to one day own one. Its $4,500 bucks for cryin out loud. I'm sure it would completely violate the Technics. At 10X the price it better. Maybe not, I dunno.Here's what I did and I'm very happy:
I bought a Technics as a stake in the ground. Its a rock solid table that will hold its own with anything up to many times its price. I know I'll always have at least that quality of a table. I then ventured into the world that Tubes mentioned -- restoring vintage tables. I've got a Rek O Kut Idler, an Empire 598 belt and a homemade belt table that uses a Rek O Kut platter and bearing. If I had to get rid of all but one it would be a toss up between the Rek O Kut Idler and the Technics. I think the Rek O Kut sounds better, but I just love the Technics too much to get rid of it. Also, I really want to hear it with the new power supply.If you can get a P9 for a steal ... I dunno. I guess it depends on how much of a steal you can get it. Even a steal would be ~$2K right? I don't really know what they go for used. Like I said, waaaaay out of my price range. If you got the $Ks to spend, you could do what I did. Get it as your stake in the ground and start playing with the vintage idlers.
Either way you go, its a good delima to have.
With a polished bearing and silicone nitride ball.Then use the Pabst motor instead of the shaded pole motor.
RayOStat is using a Pabst motor on his VPI turntable. This is one rocking VPI by the way....and he said the Pabst motor rocked his world.
Send me a platter and I will get it polished up for you. You need to hear a ROK with a micropolished main bearing.
I have a Rek O Kut - L34. I thought those used the Pabst motor. I never bother to investigate because I assumed this was the case. Am I wrong? If so, where do you buy one? Do you just wait for them to come along on ebay?Thanks again
Also the B12GH which I have one but am not sure that I like all that much.I have three of these Pabst motors now. I just need to know all the tweaks Mosin did with his! He says he got it even more quiet than stock which is really great.
This is what a Pabst motor looks like. Square, hysteresis motor, with a falsing cap to provide three phase 120V operation.
Hello
Great discussion, I just finnished a base for my REK O KUT K33, and I did use a Pabst from a N33H table that I bought for $2.
I see the discussion about the platter bearing, has anyone out there had a new bearing well or shaft remade to tighter tolerances?
Mine is pretty good a little slop with no oil but good with oil.
Also, My speed is slightly fast running the Pabst motor, anyone out there seeing the same thing ? I was thinking of having the motor shaft polished. any ideas ?
bob
I've been meaning to take your advice on this subject, but I've been busy building those speakers I mentioned earlier. by the way, I replied to you with a couple questions down the way a bit on that thread. I don't mean to be pushy, I just wasnt' sure if you were planning to revisit that particular thread so I mention it here. I'd appreciate your thoughts on that.Back to the subject at hand:
Where do you get the silicone nitride ball? How much?
I think you just answered my other question, but I guess when you say micropolish the bearing, you are refering to the shaft attached to the platter? Or are you refering to the bearing well, or both? I appreciate your suggestion to send you the platter, but I would prefer to do it locally if possible. You mentioned before to give it to a machine shop I think. Will just any old machine shop do or is there a place in particular you use? I don't really know where to begin with that and how do you communicate to them what you want? I suspect they get relatively few requests for vintage table bearing micropolishing.
Thanks for your thoughts on this!!!
... like I did.Mike
I don't know much about boca bearing.
A package of two silicone nitridge balls is less than 15 dollars shipped to your door.I have been using the 9/32 balls, but these are a little taller on some Rek O Kuts. The 1/4 inch balls would be fine.
Since I machine off the thrust surface and then polish it, the extra height of the 9/32 ball works beautifully for my applications.
The way to describe this to the machine shop is to take a measuring caliper and the main platter and bearing to the shop and begin taking measurements up and down the shaft.
If this is a good shop they will get interested and immediately find a caliper set for 10,000's of an inch.
Tell them that you need it polished to the lowest point and no more.
CAUTION....they might give you a silly look.....The Rek O Kut main bearings will have a run out of say 0.0007 inches. So you are asking them to polish out one thirtieth of a human hair.
Most will not want to do the work. It is not hard, its just not what the shop does for a living. They need to press out the bearing (easy) and machine the thrust surface flat and smooth. Then polish the main bearing so it measures exactly the same from top to bottom.
We are using a polish compound equivalent to what a jeweler would use for finish polish work on fine gold jewelry. That way we can polish for a minute and remove very little surface metal.
Most of the 20 minutes time was taken up making the measurements. We turned the lathe at 600 rpm and the dremel on steroid type polishing motor has a 2200 rpm motor. We use a hard cotton polish head and take it down to straight.
Here is the motor.
I am using Mobile 1 0-40 weight motor oil...yes 0 to 40. This is not as thin as water, but it is really thin for a motor oil.
nt
Yeah, it's dandy and all that your Rek O Kuts cost under a 100$, but where does one find such a vintage table???
For the past several weeks Rek O Kuts have been running three to five times the prices of last summer. The bargains are not what they used to be. Rodine Deluxes are running from about 300 to 500 now! Beat up junior L34s are over one-hundred and some sellers are fishing for 300-400.
Better look at the Fleas, garage, and estate sales around New York where most were sold in the 50's & 60's.
Wow this seems like lunacy!A RekOKut in stock shape might not sound any better than midfi. It does not take much to get it singing, but more than most people might want to do on their own.
I am picky most of the time and will pass on most of the ones that look less than mildly used. However the last one I bought looked really rough and I bought in anyhow. Why? Because these things are built like a tank to tolerances you only find in 5,000 dollar and up turntables.Since I am going to rebuild the whole thing anyway I took a little bit of a chance.
There are a variety of us here on the asylum that can help you get your idler all buttoned up.
Basically you can look for very high quality bass lines which is really excellent not only for Rock and Roll, but even better for Jazz and Classical where the bass lines can get lost in the shuffle.
You will get vocals and midrange details that sound like you are right there in the recording venue.
Most of all you get this drive and pace to the music that just cannot be achieved by many tables out there at any price.
Fun stuff. I can send you a cdr if you want to hear some of what I am describing.
I have the same question, they seem to be far and few between in my neck of the woods(Ontario Canada). The only place I can find is Ebay and they sure as heck don't go for under $100.
Would dearly love to refurbish an idler but will have to wait for the clouds to part. I envy you tubes...
The LP 34 is my favorite Rek O Kut at this time. It has a very simple platform. Any machine work or polishing that needs to be done can be accomplished at any competent motor sport machine shop.I have bought an LP 743 for 25 dollars, and one LP-34 for 56 dollars and the last LP 34 was 76 dollars. They are going up in price so now is the time to get one if you want one cheap.
The fact that the Rek O Kut sounds so damn well is a mystery to me. I really sense it is that cast iron main bearing well that is doing it. But polishing the main bearing and running a 4 dollar silicone nitride ball elevates the sound quality a great deal.
Shoot me an email at jim_howard_pdx@yahoo.com. I will keep you on a watch list for some good options.
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