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as did my post on that thread, why are their records so noisy?Can you people tell me, what percentage of your records have frequent ticks and pops? Mine often in fact mostly do not. I am speaking of those I bought myself, not the used thrift ones. And, if tubesforever and others like Olly are correct, even these quiet down (esp. with our favorite AT cart).
I listen 80% of the time to classical music (primarily orchestral, solo, and concerto).
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I have about 10,000 LP's at this point I have cleaned and played about 3,000 of that 3,000 I would say about 75% are pretty free of pops and clicks (maybe one per LP), the rest have maybe 2 to 4 pops and clicks per side a few have maybe 1 or 2 pops per track. From my point of view some pops and clicks go with the experience and I would rather listen to the album then cleaning it 100 times, whipping up some kind of miracle cleaner or spreading glue all over the album.That said, pops and clicks don't really bug me to much even with classical music, I can tune them out always have been able since I was a kid and played my vinyl on el cheapo turntables with ceramic cartridge with the pennies strapped on top. The reason I sold most of my albums from my youth was not the lack of noise with CD's, but I guess the higher dynamic range of CD's (i.e. they were louder) and I bought into the whole Perfect Sound Forever thing.
Over the last few years I have been able to get a pretty good vinyl rig and purchase lot's of vinyl. I listen mostly to vinyl about 95% of the time. I still have about 3,000 CD's but am in the process of selling many of them off as I replace them with the vinyl versions. What sounds better CD or Vinyl I can't answer both can sound amazingly good and bad. As I get older and my eyes are going bad I like the larger format of vinyl, I feel and I know this sounds really stupid, but I feel like I bond with vinyl in a way that I can't with a CD. The act of spinning the record, turning over the record, everything else that goes along with playing vinyl is a much more physical act then playing a CD, maybe more like going to a concert, I really don't know.
Dogface's assertion when he was young that CD's have more dynamic range relates to noise free CD background, I think. Actually, the nuances and range of LP's, particularly the upper register extension is better subjectively to my ear, and even my 80 year old semi audiophile uncle tells me that. And he hasn't played an LP since 1985 or so.
same goes for me. all of what you said.there is also some air and a wider picture to Lps on my 'stereo' now. At first after getting back into vinyl I was chasing down the noise thing but it has taken a shorttime for me to relax and get used to the noise as being thereafter coming from the noiseless CD.
After coming from the CD vs Lp experience the first obvious thing is the noise. It is easy to be convinced that CDs are doing something better. but you can recover from that. ;-)
as I feel some groove damage has occured. I get to the point that I am happy if I can't hear any of those pops and clicks during play.
I don't think there is a cleaner on the market that will clean away all the noise and if there is I am not aware of it. Sometimes I think that if your cartridge is not perfectly aligned this also has an effect.
OLLY
was that records always have so much noise (pops, ticks, swish, dirt, etc.) that quiet 2nd movement type music or solo or chamber music could not be enjoyed on LP! I don't get it. I've never had that experience in 40 plus years of analog listening.
I never meant to imply that one could not enjoy classical music on Lp. After all, I do enjoy it, my Lp collection is about 50% classical, and I listen mostly with headphones. But the claim of no noise is counter to my experience.
The dead silent cd background is cool, but not necessarily realistic as has been pointed out here. But, sure, LP's have some noise. But listen through that to the classical music. The nuances, bowing, the noise from the strings, the breathing of George Szell and concertmasters and cellists, the bass in the string bass of the Egmont music Szell VPO, etc. How about the power of Mick Fleetwoods The Chain from Rumors, the bo jangles as it were of the folk singers such as Kingston Trio, Baez, Mitchell, etc. These sounds are definitely to be enjoyed on analog.9 out of 10 non audiophiles visiting my home, and hearing analog done decently on a decent system are amazed that there is "no noise," and ask "what did you do?" My answer, "not much." Just clean thrifts, put in rice or nice sleeves, store, and rotate. FFRR points out that records get worse when played, and that's a given.
Maybe my system is more sensitive than others (although I doubt it), but, unless I have had the record from new, and been extremely careful with it, then you can always here SOMETHING, especially between tracks, and also in quiet passages.I think some people may be in denial, because records DO have surface noise. Some have noise from new, but most acquire noises as the are enjoyed. Good records may have no LOUD pops and clicks, but are seldom noise free for their lifetime. If you play them, you must take them out of their covers and expose them to the environment and accidental damage. There's no point in having records, and not playing them, IMO, so no record can remain perfectly silent. I admit I don't use gloves, nor do I keep them and my equipment in dust free airconditioned rooms, so maybe mine fare worse than some despite my care.
Funny thing is that I have a few CDRs of Lps and when I plug them in the car I find the noise [clicks, pops, start-in and cueing groove noise] is comforting. It's like "Yes, there you go, ahhh."
I agree. Low level noise is not distracting, and as you say, even comforting :-)
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No sterile conditions here. I cleaned a nice copy of Aretha Franklin today and placed it back into it's inner liner. Later in the day I decided to play it and by the end of side one the needle was covered in fluff. I looked at the lp and the static was attracting all the dust in the room. Just goes to show that there is a lot more to keeping them clean than the cleaning process. As for ticks and pops I think they are par for the course but some here tell a few porky's when they say that their lp's are mostly pop free. I tend to think if you have a valve system the pops and ticks seem to show themselves more easily. What are your thoughts.
OLLY
OLLY
I think the reason you might think the valve system shows the pops and ticks, might be related to the levels at which you listen. Valve (tube) systems tend to handle running at high levels better because, with all systems, distortion rises with power level, and valves distort more gracefully. Hence, I have found, you find yourself listening at higher levels more easily. This will make pops and ticks more obvious in the quiet passages.
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Very sensitive and show everything up which is good but can be a pain in the arse at times. Vinyl needs to be mint and this at times is not possible.
OLLY
Don't know if you've read my system page, but mine is even lower power, being 2A3 SE.Yes, as I said, my system may be very sensitive too. I think it reveals a little more than a lot of systems I have had the chance to really listen to, but there are so many I haven't heard, so I am reticent to really judge.
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2 or more ruins the track. Especially when you're burning CDs. More especially after you've sunk a mortgage payment or two into a loricraft. Nature of the game, of course. We're dealing with an antiques roadshow medium.On the whole, it never ceases to amaze me how tuff vinyl lps are... TLC plus wet wash and vac dry has turned my collection into a silent majority. Sadly, after that, the offenders really jump out at you. Zero defects are unobtainable in this biz.
The bigger offending problem, IME, is the quality of the upstream process. The recording session, the mixing, and finally, the mastering- in trying to squeeze too many minutes on one side. We all have a lot of LPs that are dead quiet, but crap mixes.
entire evenings without hearing a tick or pop. Plus, when the minor ones are there, they're easy to "tune" out. Sort of like "rustling" at a concert
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Probably half are dead quiet . . .zero pops or ticks. My LPs are about 50% purchased new and 50% used from 4-5 trusted online vendors.
Henry
which are rare or have sentimental value. Notice that very few are fessing up. And the pops and ticks on classical was a major reason folks who prefer digital cited as why.
doc w: Notice that very few are fessing up. And the pops and ticks on classical was a major reason folks who prefer digital cited as why.At various times, I've given away hundreds of classical LPs because I can't stand the surface noise. In all cases, these were used LPs, including one large collection someone had given me.
I once bought a mint-looking Solti Mahler 3 that had surface noise throughout--and there are many quiet passages in this long symphony. Someone offered to clean it on his machine, so I sent it to this person, and it came back to me noise intact.
This was five years ago. I no longer have the record, the cartridge, or the stylus, so I can't replicate the experience in the here and now. I gave up on classical LPs that day. The only one I now have is a set of Vivaldi concertos conducted by Bernstein that I've not found on CD.
I think you said, doc w, that your collection is made up of LPs of which you've been the only owner. Maybe if that were true for me, I might not have had all the problems I've had. Who can say?
I don't mind classical on CD. It's how I first came to listen to classical, so I have little familiarity with classical on LP in any case.
and this includes my family's LP's from the mid 60's when I was in my early teens, there is minimal surface noise. On a collection of my uncle's I recently acquired, there is little noise--and he had those LP's that everyone is now bidding on (Merc, RCA, London blueback, DG Tuliped, etc.).On a collection I recently was given from a church friend, (his father's) records are from the mid 50's to early 60's, mostly mono, about 1/2 domestic Angel pressed in UK, 6 eye Columbia, etc., the noise varies and is often cleaned off with proper cleaning (DIY water-alcohol-dishwashing fluid by hand, drip dried and lightly patted). My results would improve with RCM and either Olly or other solutions, for sure.
Classical is a treat using analog, if you like the older literature and material from the 60's to 80's. Or if you like golden era material earlier than that.
most of my used have some kind of noise but a good portion have been cleaned into submission.Most every single new record is quiet.
Now, a noisy Rolling Stones AFTERMATH is a plus, to me. A pop or wheeze adds to the 'ambience'. And on other records there is far too much good going on for a periodic pop to ruin. Some records are in such bad condition that only the most microscopic stylus can fix the noise issue, so those records wait ...
But the noise issue overall is an issue that has to be gotten around. It is a thing that does not really have to chased to ground in all cases. Only my opinion and only for the way I listen but tochase after ultimate quiet on vinyl either takes way too much money that I aint got OR you're being diverted by a triviality.
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