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The body seems to be the same as a Garrott.
Follow Ups:
Vinyl is better than digital (and every other medium), expensive moving coils are the only way, the Technics 1200 is not superior to glass and particle board tables with a flimsy motor, cables have to be expensive (especially power cords), everything about this is mysterious and a reviewer must make decisions for us, only select high end companies make great products ( Onkyo--hell no! ), etc. etc. etc.Click the link and watch the Audiogon Audiophools get a reality check!
Disclaimer: any similarity w/ people in this forum is pure coincidence.
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No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
Obviously, this is the work of someone extremely bored.
you to let an opportunity pass.And FWIW, there are lots of people here who own one-no need to disassociate yourself from VA. You must have missed the relatively recent period when every other thread involved 1200 supporters.
Same with mm carts-many vocal adherents on this site.
And please, take off the hair shirt. The road you wander isn't quite as lonely as you'd like it to be, and your martyrdom is mostly self inflicted.
You forgot to mention the KAB Technics 1200 -rare for you to let an opportunity pass.
****No, I did not forget. I started on the 1200 modding path before knowing about KAB. Quite a few of the tricks I use I found through other pre-KAB 1200 modders and by trial and error. Actually, I do disagree with Kevin (KAB) on a couple of things regarding 1200 modding pathways.
****
And FWIW, there are lots of people here who own one-no need to disassociate yourself from VA. You must have missed the relatively recent period when every other thread involved 1200 supporters.****
1) I know there's lots who have the KAB. Guess who started it all here?
2) Yes, I've seen the threads. I choose to let events follow their course, not posting on most. Scubaboard.com has become a new foraging place for me...
****
Same with mm carts-many vocal adherents on this site.****
Yes, but not enough noise and/or will to influence manufacturers.
****
And please, take off the hair shirt. The road you wander isn't quite as lonely as you'd like it to be, and your martyrdom is mostly self inflicted.
****
That's your perception. Unlike what you posted to tubesforever (but later erased ) I don't need to get any esteem or perceived image from an anonymous forum. I do love to stir things up and then sit back and watch. Nowadays politics is the arena where I move--and I'm very good at it, strategically working towards the first green government on this planet.
****
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No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
Sumiko Pearl - Shelter 201 Comparison
Sumiko Pearl
Shelter 201
Cartridge Type MM
Frequency Response (Hz) 12Hz-30kHz
Output Voltage/Channel (mV) 5mV
Channel Separation (dB) 30dB
Channel Balance (dB) 0,5dB
Compliance 15mm/N
Stylus size/shape (mil) Elp. 0,2x0,8mm
Load Impedance 47kOhm
Tracking Force Range (grams) 1.5 - 2.0
Cartridge Weight 6g
Output Voltage: 4.0mV (at 1kHz, 5cm/sec.)
Channel Balance: within 1dB at 1kHz
Stylus Tip: 0.3x0.7mil Elliptical
Weight: 6.2g
Tracking Force Range: 1.5-2.0g
Recommended Load Impedance: 50kohm
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
A friend has one on a P3 and it sounds very good.Best Rega I ever heard but I attribute that to a large degree to the superior setup. It sits on a substantial hardwood shelf that is braced to a huge wooden support pillar that is isolated from the floor. All Regas I'd heard prior were on standard equipment stands at shops and the never did anything for me.
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
I thought it was something special new from Shelter when I ordered from Elusive Disc. When I took it to my buddies at the repair shop to setuo from me they noticed it was the same as a Sumiko Pearl rebadged, and it even took the same replacement stylus. Compare the specs. I contacted Elusive and the Shelter Dist. They never gave me a straight answer, but did give me an exchange. I ended up buying a Clearaudio Aurum beta. But to this day I believe the Shelter 201 is a rebadged Sumiko Pearl. They never argued my complaint or told me I was wrong. But the 201 is double the money of the Pearl.
Although the Pearl and the 201 appear to be sourced from the same manufacturer, they are nonetheless different.The 2 cartridges are different both electrically (spec-wise atleast) and mechanically (the 201 has a different stylii and a fixed cantillever).
...the Clearaudio Aurum Beta S is a rebadged Audio-Technica AT-95E, but with a better stylus. It is essentially the same as a Linn K9.
nt
Maybe in the old days, right after Benz bought Empire, some Benz components found their way into a few Empire cartridges, and maybe, just maybe, some Empire technology made its way into a few Benz cartridges along the way. The only example that I have found was an Empire "P" mount that was really too good to have been an Empire creation. Its construction was more on the par of a Benz. I suppose that is reverse re-badging, though. :)
Thanks. I'm interested in an H2 and was hoping to find a cheaper variant.
I guess there is and always has been a lot of parts and design sharing. It's not a crime. It happens in every industry.
Surely some of the smaller companies do not have the resources, tooling or trained personnel to begin building cartridges. No surprise there. Can't blame a company like Accuphase or Air Tight wanting to be able to offer their customers a "system matched" cartridge.
There is the potential for being burned. Paying $199 for a "Shelter" 201 is an example I suppose. Clearaudios may be another. Luckily I dislike Clearaudio products in general and consider their prices to be horific for what you get.
I'm an A-T/Denon/Ortofon fan. I feel they offer models that can compete with the most expensive, at a fraction of the prices. I guess it's safe buying from older, established manufacturers. Ortofon might be the oldest. They certainly have the widest selection.
I think Ortofon and B&O had some kind of relationship before B&O stopped doing phono. Their cartridges sure did look like each other's.
Even in the higher segment of the market there are components that many competitors share. Some cartridges in the thousands of dollars use inexpensive inner workings from Japanese OEM suppliers. Cantilevers and tips are from very few sources these days. Most, if not all, of those handmade cartridges for megabucks use cantilever/stylus assemblies from a scant few suppliers. The difference is in the choice and implementation of the materials, and in some cases it justifies the price of admission. The end really does justify the means when it comes to cartridges, doesn't it?
Let's look into some snazzy little anodized cubes that we can stuff AT440mla guts into...And charge.... hmm how about that 'Glider' niche at circa $799.oo ... ?
We can say they're made by ... uhm .... how about "Fr. Edj" ...
...a secretive, disgruntled Jesuit friar who went native in Honshu and created cartridges underground for the Emperor's use.Yeah !!
... course we'd have to figure out how to fuse those removeable styli back on so they can't be replaced. Just a small detail.
*
groove
Just cut the stylus assembly holder in such a way that it doesn't look replaceable. That's what Clearaudio does. ;)
I am all over your idea, but let's call them the FeRdj in honor of the persecuted Romanian physicist who worked as a ticket taker in a XXX movie house while hiding from the evil Nicolae Ceauşescu's secret police.
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groove
Dr. FeRdj knew a man who discovered the remnants of Noah's Ark partially buried in a Romanian hillside. What you may not know is that he smuggled a small quantity of the planks into the United States, and I now have possession of them. The Cryptikon Ark would be an extremely valuable item simply for its historical value, not to mention its sonic superiority due to the sanctified nature of the outer material. I might add that the crystallized pitch embedded in the wood has excellent resonance compatibility with any system, and the fact that I have submitted it to cryogenic treatment further enhances it beyond the scope of modern engineering. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is capable of approaching the holistic presentation of this material. The mere fact that the inside components are from the more pedestrian beginnings of an Audio-Technica are really neither here, nor there, because the overall cartridge represents a true synergy in a world of mediocrity and despair. The Ark will obviously cost more than $795, but how could anyone question the price of such innovation when it is combined with a relic of such humonsterous proportions as Noah's Ark?
Not just cartridges but watches from the Ark too!
Let me add I tried to find spmething out on the Aurum Beta MKII originally when I was looking at the cartidge, and never could find any comparisons with it to anything including the AT-93E. Different though if what you say is true, is tha fact that it does have a better stylus, and an totally different body, made out of some type of alloy with the drilled and tapped body, so would seem quite a bit different.While the Pearl Shelter thing is the same body with a different colr, and a stylus that is identical.
The body of the Aurum Beta S is the same alloy as the AT-95E, although it does differ from the Linn K9. There isn't anything particularly special about AT's body on its lower lineup, and I don't see anything drilled and tapped there. The Aurum Beta S is an Audio-Technica with a jazzed up look about it. The primary components of both the Aurum Beta S and the Linn K9 are sourced from Audio-Technica, and both are very easily re-tipped, although Clearaudio charges its customers who have their cartridge a fortune for that service.The photo is of the Aurum Beta S beside the Linn K9. There is a strong similarity between that pair and Audio-Techinca's Signet 5.0 Series, as well as the less expensive AT-95E.
So...
What makes the Beta S different from the Beta MKII? I don't know, but when I get my hands on one, I'll find out. Someone could post a closeup photo, and more than likely, we would be able to tell something about its origin. My bet is that we would be able to figure it out without a great deal of difficulty.
Aurum Beta S, trashed cantilever and all. S'posed to be a II but it isn't marked.
Please excuse my taking my brand new Canon A630 out of the box half an hour ago:-)
Same thing, different body color.
What I meant is the body of my Beta MKII is an alloy body drilled and tapped for the screws. It is not wood. Beyond that it is all I know. What I have read that there are a lot of similarity in many cartridges, but that they have difference in stylus, body, etc,,, which I suppose justifies some price differences??
Bear in mind that the bulk of the profit is made by the dealer, however. That said, not every brand has the same profit structure, performance level, or manufacturing cost. The trick is in finding the best bang for the buck, and that isn't always an easy task. (I know this all too well.)
Well, since we are talking about it, where is a good guideline or starting point for cartridges let's say $500.00 or a little one way or the other ?
I think there are some amazing cartridges at much lower prices than that. I believe diminishing returns rapidly take over above $500/600 or so.
I have a lot of cartridges. I made a conscious decision to buy a bunch of good lower cost models (over time of course) rather than one "super expensive" one. I enjoy switching them in and out and listening for differences with my favorite recordings. I have three systems set up too.
I think four of the cartridges I have can give many of the mega buck cartridges a run for their money. They are the Denon DL-160 ($180), Ortofon Samba ($225), Denon DL103R ($379) and Dynavector ($380). Note that they are from companies that build their own and do not seem to overprice their offerings, imo.
Even the A-T440MLa, A-TOC9ML/II and Denon DL-110 are tough to beat and sound great too.
This is a sensitive issue, but some of the very high end cartridges would be beat out in blind listening, I'm sure.
With anything you can buy, the real values are in the middle price ranges. Same with watches, cars, wine whatever!
Madame Lalou Bize-Leroy makes some damned fine wine.
And I could take a short drive into the Alsace to Trimbach and find you a wine for around $50 that is one of the top five whites in all of France, easily competing with burgundies (Chardonnays) that cost anywhere from 10 to 30 times the price. And many, many wines for around $15 that will put the more famous names to shame.
I'm not really a good guy to ask because I tend to use cartridges from back when. I did have a Grado Platinum reference that sounded pretty good, but I traded it to another guy around here. It was a $300 cartridge, and I actually liked it better than the $500 Sonata. I have an NOS cartridge that I like better than both, so I suppose your mileage will vary.If I had the extra money, I would add a ZYX Universe and a Blue Angel Mantis to the stable. I would appreciate it, if you would PayPal $10,000 to my account. ;)
I think we've been here before....
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groove
- I remember it like it was only yesterday, sure, now let's think, it was a dark and rainy morning when all of a sudden there was a crack of lightning and then,......... (Open in New Window)
From the days of yore.
Some of those Andante cartridges were made by Grace, and sold by Sumiko.
The Andante's were indeed Grace's. However just because Grace is no more, doesn't mean their former design staff are out of work, eh? :-)
Me, I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell me by the way I walk....
-Ray
Thanks, to bad this was not there a year or so a go. This is written as if the 201 is new, I bought mine early last year when they were REAL new.
I saw it for the first time a few days ago. It also happened to be the first time I looked at the Elusive Disc web site.
I guess my "regular cartridge dealer" Needledoctor never carried it.
Doggy, I find a few others that also don't maybe that is why they won't.
I was thinking of buying one myself. I was most interested in the fact that it has the same body as the Garrotts.
Since you noticed the resemblance I need not post a picture, just compare the the Sumiko and the Shelter to the K-series Garrott. Odd, but it was my impression the body used for the Garrott was said to be a Grado. I was led to believe it might be because it invoked that well-known Grado hum on my Heybrook TT-2. I replaced it with a Denon DL-160, which still hums a little but not nearly as bad.
What I have is the Clearaudio Aurum Beta MkII not the S. So since all is being told here on where does this cartidge origin from ??
for uncovering this type of stuff. I thought it looked familiar. They didn't give you any hooey and say "sure it may LOOK like a Pearl, but we can assure you it'll sound better because we sprinkled it with some magic Shelter dust". Wouldn't it be funny if the 201 label was actually a little sticker you could tear off. Someone should whip up a pic in photoshop of a Pearl with a 201 'label' half peeling off. :-) If I have some time later tonight i'll do it.
I figured it could not be anything great. Anything from Shelter for $200? That's enough right there. The new Ortofon M2 Blue is the same price and the M2 is a completely new, ground up design that supposedly took two years to develop. I think we'll see new models coming along more often from others. That's refreshing because most of the available cartridges are old designs.
I think the Pearl has a bonded stylus. Considering that even the Shure 97 and A-T 120 and 440 models have nude styli, there is no excuse for that in a $200 cartridge.
The fact that Shelter was even interested in offering such an inexpensive cartridge is indicative of a very healthy vinyl resurgence, I think.
or maybe they are testing the bottom p;rice range because there are not takers for the top end. Meaning a sag in sales. Meaning no resergence.Who knows, but I don't think this is "healthy" for them to be scamming us. Smells of desperation. I'd rather think that than that they all went cynical. How can we trust a company that does something like that?
I think the market for super expensive cartridges is tiny at best. The many good reasonably priced models are hard to beat at any price.
Yeah I'm suspicious of companies that price things too high. I'm not sure if it is ignorance or greed!
Some "High End" outfits have been scamming us for a long time.ClearAudio comes immediately to mind. Acoustech is another with their $60 Canrong stylus force scale marked up to $180.
Some outfits just can't get any audiophile respect for doing things on the level (you know, Technics, Shure, AT etc.). Reasonable prices with minimal hype must not sell is all I can figure.
--
Al G
Born To Tinker!
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1181427093
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