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I own a Garrard 301 in a plinth made by an Audiogon guru. I think it sounds good. The plinth is amateurish in manufacture. I wonder what could be gained in sound by a plinth made by someone adept at woodwork. Or is a primitive layered plywood and MDF plinth all that is required?
Follow Ups:
I'm an amateur with below average woodworking skills. Even i have made a BM/MDF CLD plinth for a Lenco that gets the job done sonically. I'm single so i don't have to worry about the WAF...
"The torture never stops"
...when you pay good money, you expect good work. When you don't get it, it leaves a really bad taste. This is especially true when you then have to spend more to have it done right. I've been called on twice now in simialr situations to that of the OP to redo what should have been acceptable the first go round.I will agree, of course, that a plinth absolutely does NOT have to look great to sound great. Now, if you've built the table yourself and it doesn't look like "fine furniture" on the outside, at least you know FOR SURE whether what's on the inside is also compromised, or not. When you have someone else do the work and when the outside fit and finish is obviously suspect and otherwise unacceptable, it makes you wonder about what lurks beneath. Where solid pieces used in the layers, or were they pieced together with gaps left resulting in resonant voids? What about the gluing process? What other short cuts or slip-shod methods may have been used. Etc., etc. Ya never know.
good sonics, which I'm sure can be attained for a 301 plinth (though I have no direct experience). Any cld materials can be covered with the veneer of your choice (hundreds of possibilities), slate plinths are on the market, open-style plinths are available (Cain & Cain). In short, you can have your cake and eat it too.FWIW, the poster 4yanx builds plinths, and I believe one client was someone who had bought his initial plinth from that "audiogon guru" of whom you speak. Seems it was less than desirable in the looks dept, and if the one's I've seen are any indication, I don't blame him.
I posted this before - over the winter when I first completed it. I am not posting the picture again to show off, but because it may pertain to this thread. I think it is possible to have looks and function. My plinth, 4 layers birch ply, is not nearly as thick as some are, but I think I sacrificed very little. Rumble is nil. It weighs 32 lbs.There are some things I would do different now: better arm mount is one.
Pete
...we must have been thinking similar thoughts at roughly the same time.I should note though that while my son and I are plinth builders and enjoy plinth building, we are not really in the plinth building business. We have made them mostly for family and friends and we currently spend a good deal of time making tables for some local gents who have a love of music and little else. As exceptions, we have done 4 or 5 when we’ve owed a favor or were appalled and sympathetic to a couple members who got taken badly.
There's a distinction that isn't usually made, especially in the turntable plinth and speaker housing fields...These are as much sound projects as they are woodworking projects. Get something really wrong regarding either discipline, and the other suffers. Maybe fatally.
Never looked at it quite this way, but a reasonable craftsman with average audio and average woodworking skills would tend to do better than, say, a sound engineer who can't do a corner joint or the reverse, a master cabinetmaker who doesn't or won't do audio measurements......
One pretty-much clear-cut test--- put on an unrecorded track (unmodulated groove) from a test record, and turn the volume up a little higher than you do for Lp listening.
Sound like you're skiing through an ice glacier during an avalanche ? Does it make you wince as you listen ? It shouldn't.
At the point just above normal volume --where, say, an unexpected crescendo might someday occur--- you still shouldn't be very aware of groove noise or motor rumble.
On the plus side, the two are relatively obvious to differentiate, however, the treatments are many and inter-related, not always a simple procedure.
Nonetheless, this is a good starter diagnosis.Who's the 'audiogon guru', by the way ?
J.D.
Plinth building is more about resonance control and transmission than pretty wood working. Are you de-coupling the tonearm from the spindle bearing, do the feet transmit the resonances you want to get rid of, is the top plate over-dampened or under dampened, how much mass is enough and is the plinth rigid enough with just gluing - does glue type matter? Heck, if you use screws, should they be brass, alloy, or steel - or does it matter?I have done a lot of reading and research about this stuff but ultimately you just have to try different approaches that seem to make sense. As you can see from the approaches by the very best manufacturers there is still enough variety to drive you mad - if you are seeking an optimal solution. Generally, for an unsuspended table, high mass is good, over-dampening is bad, resonance transmission and control is the game. Brass is usually good, steel is sometimes bad unless its between corian or mdf.
J.D. knows this stuff better than I. I just couldn't resist commenting as I am in the middle of a monumental Lenco project.
Just tried the Decca record. Played some unmodulated grooves and they are very quiet up until the point where I induce feedback by turning the volume too high. I guess my speakers are too close to the turntable, but my listening room is small and this is hard to avoid.
I have an old Decca test record. I haven't tried anything doing what you suggest.Is there more than one Audiogon guru?
Henry
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