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Listen to your local NPR station this AM...They just ran a "The resergence of vinyl" story.
Said everyone is buying a $150.00 USB Turntables to get thier Vinyl onto thier iPod's....
Also mentioned that increased Vinyl sales (new and used) _might_ be because of the "way Vinyl Sounds, which is warmer than binary playback systems".
Said CD sales are slumping worlwide, and that the recording industry is looking at the last decades' increase in Vinyl sales, that they might be interested in promoting the Vinyl medium (producing more new Vinyl for sale) to boost thier slumping CD sales.
Follow Ups:
Upturn, yes: resurgance is another question. I use both CD and vinyl. But there is another point, perhaps. How much of the vinyl sound is there when the recording is digital as most are?
The more analogue the better. But the way a cartridge interprets the sound along with the needle in the groove has alot to do with why people like vinyl. I also like the different flavors different carts have. Once you buy a CD player it will always have the same sonic signature. Some people may prefer this. I like changing my sound from time to time.
I posted a response (couldn't resist). ;)-Bry
...sounds like NPR has about as firm a grip on recorded music sales as they do on the Israeli-Palestinian question.We are whack-job hobbyists (and darned proud of it!) Just because a few of us bought a few more overpriced reissues, or drove up the price of used vinyl on eBay, doesn't mean that records are coming back.
And what does an uptick in the sales of USB turntables prove? People are buying them to turn their old LPs into iPod fodder, not because they are going to go out and start buying 12-inchers again.
NPR News is one of the things that makes me ashamed to be a boomer...
Agree with your assessment of the vinyl resurgence.What's that about the middle east, or npr's version of same ?
*
groove
They show a hearty pro-Palestinian bent.OT, I find NPR, Fox News, and (until recently) the New York Times to be of a piece - very biased in their reporting, but trumpeting far and wide how balanced they are. (The Times of late appears to have gone off the deep end.)
I'd rather see a news outlet that has a point of view be upfront about it. Although a conservative myself, for many years I had a subscription to the Village Voice. They wore their politics (extreme left) proudly - for that reason, I had much greater respect for them, as well as much greater faith in their reporting - they weren't trying to hide or evade. I simply filtered out the POV and drew my own conclusions.
*
groove
.
High End Magazine for analog/vinyl lovers!!
Review only vinyls (not cd plus vinyl), how to buy turntable, how to tweak, adjust, how to choose cartridge, history of vinyl, advertisement etc, etc.
This will attract industries for thinking about vinyl future.
This will also attract new young generations to learn enjoying analog vinyl. Some of them already playing hip-hop DJ vinyls.
Most of people are familiar with the convenience of digital cd, and the idea of vinyl is foreign for them.
Just an idea.
* (I will start subscription right away!)James
It is easy to show the difference between these media, right?
Of course then the magazine would die after about 100 record reviews.
Steve
Said that sales are up 10% from last year. But in a low sales situation vinyl is not in any 'comeback' stance.Personally I wish the usb tables would go away. Or that people become quickly disenchanted and swear of vinyl forever. I don't want any resurgence. I want all those old LPs available for the few of us.
imagine what prices will be like if there is a resurgence. and imagine what the condition of those old LPs will be when they re-enter the used market. Harumph.
~ Pat O'Malley
a resurgence would help this
there is plenty of the "old" stuff out there already.. not enough vinyl of music that has been produced in the past 20 years, and new releases.If done right, many of the re-issues are better than the origionals
Rick
you sure about that?
~ Pat O'Malley
Of course I'm sure about that.. it's been brought up many times... also, you have Cisco, MFSL APO etc. that make excellent re-issuesRick
i don't agree with you but you are still right. my bad.
~ Pat O'Malley
A resurgence would fuel more new vinyl, lower prices, and more new TT hardware. Vinyl could be the new/old "hardcopy" format.-Bry
I didnt know that ripping vinyl to MP3 was getting that popular. Maybe the reporter could only figure that could be the main reason for a sales increase.I dont think most people are aware the vinyl is a quality audiophile format and dont even consider it for that.
CDs are certainly 'instant homogenized music' and most of us can be suckers for that aspect.When vinyl gets the reputation for being the best quality in reproduction I think that then it will have a pemanant niche.
expressions like:
"Boy did you hear that guys vinyl setup. Ive never heard anything so good"" I was over Uncle hanks house and his records sound so much nicer than my CDs"
Dennis
I heard that on the radio also. Do you catch that one person said the USB turntable sounds tinny also. This is going to be interesting. Also catch the guy who said records is just too much of a hassle and he likes the convenience of Cd's. Cd's are a lot more convenient. Lot easier to skip the songs you don't want to hear. I like both so wouldn't want to be without either.
I see a resurgence in vinyl as netting out to be a good thing;
- there will likely be an increase in the prices of used vinyl.
- an increase in the availability of new releases, reprints and vinyl related paraphanelia.
- a likely drop in new vinyl prices.
- but most importantly, an increase in folks willing to sit down and just listen to music.
- and the cherry on top for me would be, we may even see a return to recordings with little or no processing.
there will likely be an increase in the prices of used vinyl.
- this is extremely bad for me becuase I want mostly used vinyl. Some re-issues that I cannot find in used but the used being closer to the master, etc ad nauseum.an increase in the availability of new releases, reprints and vinyl related paraphanelia.
- see point 1 and what more paraphernalia do we need?a likely drop in new vinyl prices.
- I personally don't want new vinyl unless it is an analog master using tubed equipment ... overall, that is.but most importantly, an increase in folks willing to sit down and just listen to music.
- who cares what other people do. how does that make any difference to me?and the cherry on top for me would be, we may even see a return to recordings with little or no processing.
- so maybe if this was true then it will overall be a good thing.
~ Pat O'Malley
the net effect is unknown.
.
~ Pat O'Malley
Agree, O'M, on the central 'mostly used vinyl' emphasis.
I'd even add that with the exception of some seriously carefully-crafted releases, new vinyl is very often pretty bad, generated from digital recordings that were made, monitored, mastered and produced to be :: all-digital efforts,Record mastering and production in the Era was a specific "how does it sound played back from the groove" proposition. Not a bedroom-tascam-straight-to-protools-then-pressed-on-the-nightshift kinda thing. Geoff Emerick talks in his book about having to fly down to EMI/Abbey Rd on a call from Paul or John in the middle of the night in order to warm up the preamps and transports in time to get a new track on tape. All heavy machinery and tubes. No plastic, no fcking around.
Which gets to the main point. One aspect of the "increase in the availability of new releases", is that the new releases, the good ones , whether new or reissue material --- are very limited release and few in actual number overall. Which means that unlike the Era of a few million pressed of one title, there's now a built-in Collector's Market -- read 'snooty, picky, overpriced and over-impressed with the wrong things'...... That will disallow later record listeners relatively easy access or reasonable pricing once these boutique-styled puppies hit the "used" market.Never again the incredible buyer's market we've had in the last few years --- superior sound at two or three dollars a throw --- for those future record collectors.
Future Record Collector A
" Ha ! Just picked up the #0456 limited edition copy of Hotel California for only two hundred bucks ! Beat that, smartypants future record collector B ! "
Future Record Collector B
" That's nothing ! I just found the #0321 limited edition Frampton Comes Alive ... only three hundred bucks, and it's a double Lp ! "brrrrrffff
*
groove
those old 6eyes or "made in the 70s" things will trump anything new ... in my system, in my opinion, in my world.This audiophile carp is fahooty. I was fooled a tiny bit lately. Linda Ronsdtadt ~ Heart Like A Wheel was shiny pictured in an audiophile sales rag and I thought maybe that sounds good enough to be AUDIOPHILE?!? So I found a used and listened to it. What a joke - it is fair pop with some good guitar work on some cuts but why in the world you would go new 200 gram audiophile over it is a fooles question.
"I yam whut I yam"
~ Pat O'Malley
I thought the discussion was about vinyl supplanting all else as the preferred hard copy choice. Perhaps this was a bad assumption on my part. I was thinking that increased users will allow for high volume production (and sales) thereby bringing the price down for quality reissues (perhaps). As you allude to, limited run reissues are pricey in large part because of the small runs. But...I don't see vinyl supplanting anything though. As much as vinyl sales increase each year, I don't see the curve high enough to ever get to that point in my lifetime where it would be taken seriously as a format. This is more to what Jazz-Vinyl was talking about: 55 billion sales to 1 million sales. So, in the end, I'm left to dream about it while I go through shock therapy upon examining DCC reissue prices on ebay.
At the CES in 1979(I think or maybe 1980?), the Philips techy-types were demonstrating how you could spread butter on a Compact Disc, subject it to Coca Cola, water, heat, etc., then wipe it off with your shirt sleeve and then slip it into the player and it worked! Not once did they tout its fidelity.It took a deal with Sony and SOny's marketing machine to change the course and seal the deal on the CD's future.
Of course, Philips had it right all along, LOL.
cheers,
Me, I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell me by the way I walk....
-Ray
that CDs became popular as an alternative to cassettes, whose convenience had already made them more popular than vinyl. This was how I remember it -- fidelity was never really an issue in the early 80s, and since CD was more convenient...
"The Blues ain't about makin' yourself feel better; it's about makin' other people feel worse!" -- Bleedin' Gums Murphy
They just wanted to keep collecting royalties after the patent on the Cassette ran out!
Me, I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell me by the way I walk....
-Ray
Funny how things evolve. When CD sales took off, some marketing genius came up with the idea that they actually sounded better than LP's.
Boom, eveyone started replacing there LP's with crappy sounding CD's, that they thought sounded better, because in part, they believed the marketing BS. Not me baby!Jeff
It is funny how the same myth has been played out again in the photographic industry to say how digital is better than film. But that is another subject
...On most people's gear, CDs *DID* sound better than records. So did cassettes for that matter.At least in my corner of suburbia, the record player was a department store brand changer or a monster wooden coffin of a console. Most were equipped with a ceramic cartridge that tracked in ounces. Most records were dirty and scratched.
The only people dis-satisfied with CD playback were and are audiophiles.
--
Al G
Born To Tinker!
it was not uncommon for music at parties to come from a pile of LPs stacked up 10 high without protective sleeves and covered with a film of cigarette ash and cheap wine. No one took care of LPs, especially those owned by someone else, and after about a month of play, most were seriously scratched and often groove damaged from worn out, broken, misaligned styli with pennies taped on top of the headshell. The first CD I ever heard was at a well known record store (Radio Doctors)in Milwaukee, and it blew me away because it was quiet. I did not really own a decent TT and cartridge until 1987, when the CD had begun to eclipse vinyl
The great thing about that kind of party-Lp-stack play was that the groundswell of human noise and the vague stupor produced by the alcohol / tobacco-smoke haze --- generally covered any "noise" from the records. Provided you turned up the volume loud enough ....I can hear 'Mickey's Monkey' and 'Jimmy Mack' coming at me thru all that teen spirit from those years...... another century, in fact.
*
groove
Missed the "USB table sounds tinney" but I did catch the "Vinyl is too much work". This is one of the very common comments I get from people who used to used Turntables when they hear I still have one setup. I also hear comments like "how Old Fashioned" and "I am glad Vinyl is gone, who could stand the sound of bacon frying" etc etc etc etc.The NPR story also said new Vinyl sales topped 1 million units last year, but it also said CD sales last year topped 55 BILLION units globally!
No comparison really, 55 Billion to 1 Million.....!!!
True, but think of how much more they might sell if you could actually buy LPs in stores like Best Buy, Circuit City, Borders, etc---instead of seeking them out in specialty stores or online.I think that number would be higher --- not a lot higher, but higher.
Still with all the marketing over the past 20 years its likely that cd would still out sell vinyl.Now, hmmmm.....lets see. Vinyl industry hires some sharp Wall Street ad execs, developes aggressive ad campaign targeting cd and ipods and..... Next thing you know some suave dude is place two ipod ear piece up against a microphone and then places microphone between (insert your favorite watt sucky speakers) and then says....If you want to hear all the sound doesn't your home deserve (insert your favorite component system).
Now that would impact sales. But still we are only 1 to 2% of the consumption market.
Regards,
HB
Rick
Many people are surprised to hear that you can still get new releases on vinyl, or even buy a new turntable. I don't think people have a real bias against vinyl --- they just assume it's gone because they don't see it anymore, and they certainly aren't looking for it...
What I would like most i if they returned to a format of LPs with only 30-35- minutes on them total. To many CDs have 20 minutes of filler, I'd rather have 10 strong tunes than 14 so- so
I have quite a few jazz CDs (mostly OJCs) that have 2 or 3 takes of the same song in a row. Usually when I play music, I like to just spin the album in it's entirety. And I don't usually relish hearing the same song 3 times in a row. I know I can program the CD player to skip the unwanted tracks, but it's a bit of a pain. The least they could do is tack on the extra stuff at the end of the album to preserve continuity.Cheers,
Bobbo :-)
one thing i do like is the non released non duplicate cuts you get. a lot of times those non released cuts are worthy. they actually release the full session in some cases and release stuff that just wouldn't fit on one record and too little for two.that's a win.
~ Pat O'Malley
It's listening to 3 versions of the same song in a row that's slightly annoying to me.Cheers,
Bobbo :-)
Agree and agree.I've also done the cd 'program' thing to make a less repetitive mix of track alternates.
But it goes against the convenience aspect of cd to have to sit there with the track list,
punching buttons and programming tracks before you can get to play the (harmonically-bleached-digital) music ...
Doesn't it ?Just realized now, though --- why not just punch Shuffle for these multiple-alternates discs ?
You might still get side-by-side repeats occasionally, but at least you wouldn't have to program every time...J.
*
groove
hey Bobbo,i'm afraid we have to agree to disagree here ;-)
This is a + for the Cd format IMHO. For the same(or even less) money you get more music, the alternate takes. Ok you hear the same theme again but after that it's all improvisation, it's jazz you know. OTOH with the Lp you get the original front cover, back cover with the little B/W photos that always get lost with the Cd reissue. Ok the later OJC's are probably digitally remastered but i have several both on CD and LP, i prefer the Lp for sound.
"The torture never stops"Greetings Freek.
... it's the order in which they're put. I don't mind the extra tracks, and sometimes they're even a welcome bonus. In the case of duplicate tracks, I just think at the end of the regular album sequence would be a better place for them. In many cases, track sequence is a carefully thought out part of the original album experience, and I just like to preserve that original sequence.But I realize I may be an overly anal fusspot. ;-)
Cheers,
Bobbo :-)
vinyl for sound, cd for convenience
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