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In Reply to: As has been pointed out before posted by Mark Kelly on April 12, 2007 at 21:08:02:
vinyl nirvana?Vinyl by it's very nature is a sort of miraculous result arrived at from a hoard of imperfections, *perfect* centering does absolutely nothing to dispell the vast majority.
An interesting intellectual exercise perhaps but pratically speaking it seems no great surprise that the history of vinyl reproduction has seen so few "Nak"s.
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
Follow Ups:
That is true, and there are a couple of reasons for that. First, Naks were prohibitively expensive. A Dragon CT in the early to mid 80's cost about $2K, whixh was a lot of money then. Second, not many were made because of timing. The digital age was coming and analog was dying. Actually, the history of vinyl reproduction has seen very few truly state-of-the art machines. And those who own Naks usually tend hold on to them, and that is another reason you see so few of them sold.
I've been playing with theoretical models of turntable performance for a couple of months now looking at how different approaches interact with one another. I am in the process of building a prototype of a new table that incorporates the ideas that came out of this, so we'll see how well theory and practice agree shortly.As you are probably aware speed stability has been an interest of mine for a while. Every time I achieve better speed stability I like the results, so I think it's worth pursuing until I stop being able to hear the difference.
The remaining unsolved aspects are lathe performance and disc centring. Nothing I can do about the lathe, something I can do about centring. Making a re-centrable platter with micron level positioning accuracy is surprisingly easy and cheap to do. Measuring where it needs to be is tricky.
Mark Kelly
There is another audio reproduction format available today that exhibits perfect speed stability, no wow & flutter whatsoever, ruler flat frequency response, linear phase response and virtually unmeasurable distortion. It's really cheap compared to what you want to do with vinyl reproduction. Perhaps you might want to investigate it for more than simply reducing eccentricity.Just a thought!
Good luck,
John Elison
"Perfect sound forever" anyone?
Mark Kelly
Ah, no I didn't know that, best of luck.On the current topic are there not issues such as the concern with structural rigidity with a moving platter (which presumably will feature motion along at least two perpendicular axis) vs. what is possible with a fixed (platter) solution, i.e. the normally encountered enginnering trade-offs?
I imagine as well that you are aiming for superlative accuracy in many areas, not just speed stability and record centering, so I was wondering if (to mention just one additional concern) tangential tracking is out? Of course linear tracking is said to have it's own set of challenges... seems there few magic pills in LP reproduction.
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
As I said, the solution is amazingly easy and cheap once you twig to it. Involves no compromises that I can see. No platter movement except rotation.Regarding tonearms, I have a couple of ideas there too. As far as I can see linear has more compromises than pivoted. What I don't like is any of the pivot methods used so far, so I'm going to change that. I showed my prototype of the bearing structure to a friend (who teaches science) and he said "only you would have thought of that". I'm not sure if that's a compliment.
Mark Kelly
trying to be the new Takeshi Teragaki?And that's a compliment...
Do you envisage updating your website with your findings, or has it
all become confidential now that you're building a complete turntable?
I think he is trying to duplicate the accuracy of digital while still being able to call it vinyl. If he wants to attack a significant problem with pivots, he should figure out how to localize and stabilize the pivot-point of the cantilever in a phono cartridge. That is the most undefined and wavering pivot point in the vinyl process.Best regards,
John Elison
Sorry, I'm not trying to be cagey but a couple of the things I'm pursuing look to be patentable so I won't publish until I have done a search and maybe lodged a patent application.The design as a whole doesn't make sense unless that information is included, so there will be a wait before full disclosure occurs.
Mark Kelly
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No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
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