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While I'm still a bit away from pulling together my 'dream' system, one thing I am still debating is what cartridge to use (with a Technics 1200 with full KAB mods)...I'm a big fan of AT carts and am looking at either the 150MLX or the AT33PTG (not looking for any other suggestions at this time...). I was initially leaning towards the 150MLX, mostly because it would eliminate the need for a SUT, and I can replace the stylus myself. However, that nagging doubt that the AT33PTG is somehow 'better' keeps me questioning things...Has anyone used both carts in the same system? I can gather that they both track exceptionally well (a very important trait for me), however, many MC's I've heard have a rising/peaking treble that I do not especially care for. On the other hand, trying to properly load an MM (using the calculator on the Hagtech site as a guide) is driving me up the wall (not enough capacitance? Too much? Argh!!).
To users of one or the other...how do you load them? What SUT to use with the AT33PTG? Does putting something else in the chain negate whatever gains are to be had with the MC cart? For the MM, should I bother trying to find juuuust the right amount of capacitance, or should I just go as low as possible (paging Mr. Elison)? Is there any online simulation software (similar to the Hagtech, but allowing for more variables/graph output) I could play with? My head hurts. :(
Follow Ups:
Thanks for all the great input! Still can't say I have made a solid decision, though I'm looking at the '33 more and more...This will all be mated with a balanced, high-res system, and I do listen 'seriously' (I don't like 'critically' as an adjective...sounds too much like work!), so perhaps my mind is already made up...any more comments are certainly welcomed, however. Thank you again!
And Mr. Elison...e-mail sent!
I cant comment on the 150MLX but I do own a 33PTG. My step up is a B&K phono 10. The phono 10 allows for changing the loading resistance by clamping resistors into a set of spring loaded posts. Originally loaded with 133 ohms the cartridge sounded bright to my ears. Reloaded at 40 ohms, it sounds just right.As I was told on this board when I was trying to choose between this cartridge an a few MM choices "everyone should experience a good MC cartridge once in their life."
I also like the idea that the 33 is not available in the US. It makes it kind of unique.
Johns comment about the arm being heavy for either of the ATs is correct. Have you considered the offerings from Denon?
Yes, they both track exceptionally well. I found that AT33PTG is best loaded at 100 Ohms, AT-150MLX at 47K Ohms, as most MMs. But AT33PTG really is a much better sounding cartridge. In fact, if you decided to go with MM, I would buy a new AT-440MLa. I had an AT-440ML, the older version. It sounded very similar to AT-150MLX, also a bit on the bright side. I would say that, for the difference in price, AT-150MLX is not worth it. The main difference that I can see, besides the color, is that the cantilever is thinner and made of boron. It would probably have made more difference if both carts were MC. Judging from the feedback here, AT-440MLa is even better than AT-440ML.
You are trying to decide between two very difference cartridges. AT-150MLX actually sounded brighter than AT33PTG, or so it seemed to my ears. AT33PTG has a very refined, smooth, non-fatoguing sound. AT-150MLX has some high end glare that finally got to me. Both are very quiet cartridges in terms of background noise. I would say that AT33PTG is even quieter. I have owned both of these cartridges and although I have since "moved on", they are both excellent and I could live with either of them if I had no other choices, but AT33PTG is definitely better-sounding. One thing about AT33PTG is that if you damage it or anything goes wrong with it, you are going to have to find someone in Japan who will take care of the repair for you, assuming that it is repairable, while AT-150MLX is supported by ATUS. Youmay want to consider AT-OC9. It is a bit more forward and less subtle than AT-33PTG, not as quiet, but it is also better than AT-150MLX, less money than AT33PTG and it is supported by ATUS.
If you listen casually, say unfocused, maybe even as background during multitasking (?). Then the more modestly priced, less needy magnet might be the way to go. And since it isn't prohibitively priced, doesn't require additional gain, blah, blah. Is the path of least resistance.If you listen critical, have a well sorted system, and are willing to fuss with the coil's extra requirements and needs. Then the 33 is capable of some seriously fine music. And think it jolly good at its price point. A stellar romp that apologizes for Nothing. And is a very clear signpost, at the trailhead ... marked: The point of diminishing returns.
Mostly I wouldn't worry much about either. Fret, fuss, pull your hair out, and try to get it perfect, perfect, perfect. Before ever spinning a single platter (how to load before ever ordering/installing). Leave the obsession behind, buy one. Enjoy it. No crime in having a backup cart, should you not be swerving around musicville with your first selection. And well, you do have a removable headshell. Tracking ability per se does not determine your emotional response to a cart's music output. Only you. System balance/topology can also be a helpfull extra data point used in predetermination.
I just bought the 150MLX so I will be able to compare it to my Benz Micro H2O cart. I decided to go with a high output MM instead of the OC9 or the AT33PTG because I wanted to use my tube phono stage in pure tube mode (the MC mode has a FET in the first stage for more gain) and my H2O is borderline for this task.
morricab,Please post an update after you get some time with the 150MLX! I had been looking at the Benz's earlier but ultimately wanted something a bit more affordable.
Don't have any experience with the 150MLX but the AT33PTG is sounding very good right now with a mmf-7/Jolida JD9 pairing using 70 Ohm resistance. (No SUT needed.) I haven't made up a parallel resistor to try a lower impedance but the treble isn't sibilant or harsh, with plenty of detail at 70 Ohms. Mid-range has that sweet "M" tube sound with dynamic, full bass. Not the first word in accuracy and detail, but quite good none-the-less.It's all relative of course, but it sounds very good to my 51 year old ears.
Tom
I played it at 62-ohms load and it sounded very good to me, too.I measured compliance at resonance in my SME V at between 20-cu and 26-cu.
Best regards,
John Elison
I can send you a spreadsheet that will make more detailed calculations based on Hagerman's cartridge circuit. That's not a problem.Furthermore, I can give you the correct electrical properties for the 150MLX from Audio Technica's web page.
However, both the 150MLX and the AT33PTG would be better served in a less massive tonearm than the one that comes with the SL-1200. I would recommend you buy a Denon DL-103R for that Technics 12-gram tonearm.
Anyway, the correct electrical properties for the 150MLX are 530-ohms coil resistance and 0.35-Henrys coil inductance. For best performance I would recommend no more than 100-picofarads total load capacitance with 47k-ohms load resistance.
Send me personal email if you would like my version of "Hagerman's calculations" in a spreadsheet.
Good luck,
John Elison
John,I attempted to send an e-mail via the board here but I received an error message of some sort...I'm most interested in seeing your calculations, so if you happen to see this message, please give me a shout! Thanks very much!
Andy
Hi Andy,I received your email and sent my spreadsheet. I'll try again. It is a large spreadsheet--5MB.
Let me know if it works this time. If not, send me another emial with your email address included in the text. I received your original email no problem but I'm wondering if the return address might be incorrect.
Best regards,
John Elison
if you own a lot of irreplaceable discs that are in "challenged" condition, then the AT-150MLX with its microline diamond will fit the bill, it does a great job of "editing out" pops and crackles on old vinyl ( s'long as its been cleaned )The AT33 will need a stepup transformer and this is the one to get if most of the wax you have is VG++ or better; more detailed
Grins
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