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The short story is that I have become very frustrated with what I thought was going to be a pretty nice setup.
I'm just returning to vinyl in the last couple of years, and I bought a Thorens 160 with a SME 3009/II/Improved mounted on it, and mounted a NOS ADC XLM cart on....it has never sounded quite right, but in the last 2 weeks things have gotten worse.Using the HFnews test record, I can track the 2nd 300hz track (track 7?)without distortion, but the 3rd 300hz track is pretty bad(both channels evenly) and the music sounds like it. Bass is ok, but mids are kinda weak and highs are tizzy, sometimes the sax sounds more like a kazoo and the cymbals sound like static.
I have done a ton of research, read the archives, tried setting VTF from 1.25gm to 1.8gm, VTF hi/mid/low and checked and rechecked cart geometry......nothing is getting me the sound that I know the XLM and TT is capable of.
At this point, I have just ordered a Shure V15 IV to try and an Ed Saunders V15 stylus, but I am really reluctant to give up on the ADC easily.....
Is it possible my NOS stylus is bad after only about 100 hrs?
If it's bad already, I can't afford to buy a new stylus every 100hrs....I tried another old stylus, but it's condition is kinda unknown....
While trying different carts, I damaged the arm wireing so I'm doing a rewire which will at least resolve those potential connection and cable issues, and use a low capasitance phono cable, but I can't help but think that there is something else I'm missing.Any advice would be appreciated,
thanks, Robert
(for now I'm using my Marantz TT OM5 cart and CeeDee player
my system is a modified dynaco pre and st70 w/A25 speakers)
Follow Ups:
.....That particular Shure arm is a medium mass arm....the ADC (both versions) requires an ultra-low-mass arm to sound it's best. Most likely you are getting a subsonic resonance that is coloring the sound up in the audible spectrum.
Harry
This is the SME 3009 II Improved with the fixed head and an effective mass of 6.5 gm, should be a good match for a hi complience cart.....and although I certainly won't rule out a resonance problem, when I tried the low freq resonance track on the HIFINews test record, the vibration was around 9 or 10 hz, pretty much where the calc said it would be.
Maybe I'll play with that idea though, and see if I can move any possible upper audio freq range resonance.
thanks,
robert
...which is the one I had experience with. Didn't realized they had cut mass that much on the "improved".
Harry
Robert,Is it an ADC XLM, or an ADC XLM MK II? It matters because the first issues of the XLM series were known for suspension problems. They were made to track very light while the latter was much improved, and tracked at 1.5 grams.
I used to have an XLM mkII Improved in my AR XA with stock arm....I was very happy with the sound, it was very clear, yet rich and musical...
When the AR XA died I decided to upgrade to the Thorens 160 SME 3009/II/Imp combo and put a new ADC XLM mkII Improved on it....it should have been a great match......low mass arm, high compliance cart....but it hasn't worked out that way.
I keep thinking I'm doing something wrong with VTA, but no VTA adjustment seems to help. When setting the VTA, I have been trying various methods, including by ear and by stylus angle (difficult to see) and by making the bottom of the cart even with the record surface, and of course the arm level with the platter.
Mosin, I know you are a fan of the ADC, how long do you expect the suspension rubber to last in use in a NOS stylus?
Robert
I can go only by those I have. Mine are fine. I can say that I never track that model over 1.5 grams, and I am absolutely anal about VTF. In fact, I typically track mine at 1-1.2 grams. I own the SME 3009 II Improved, but I have never tried it with an ADC. It gets a Shure, but I don't see why it wouldn't work with the ADC just fine. My VTA is so that the bottom of the cartridge body is perfectly level with the record, so there's nothing fancy going on there. Are you 100% sure it is NOS because heavy tracking is something ADCs don't respond to very well. (I believe I have mentioned that three times on this page alone.) Anyway, I've never seen the problem, but I would expect the suspension to last for years. I suppose that It could have been stored in a bad environment, but who knows?
Mosin,
Actually, that helps. If the Shure V15 works well with this TT/arm for me, I'll probably just leave it there and save the ADC for my next project.
thanks,
robert
Either higher or lower. Above the highest, or below the lowest. Indidvidual cart samples vary, and recommended is just that. Your ears/music should be primary guide. Does the arm have damping? IME you can give a listen without, with a MM cart. It isn't always a remedy.Myself, never really took to the ADC's .... and well maybe your arm and cart aren't a happy luvin' couple. Stanton's sound nice to my ears, and in a low mass arm, a Micro Acoustics. Though I did spin a Shure V for a short while (came with a table purchase), and found it tuneful as well.
Wouldn't be a crime to try a Denon (with added step-up xfrmr) in the SME ;-)
Thanks, the 1.8 and 1.25 are kinda the spec edges for this cart though....also, no dampening on this arm.
I'll investigate the Micro Accoustics, and regarding the Dennon, would that be a 103 that I've heard so much about or another model?
thanks gain,
robert
the l03 and SME are a natural match. Micro Acoustics have pretty much faded into the past. Still some Stanton's about. I'm sure plenty of people enjoy MM's in their SME's .... doesn't mean the SME with 103 won't yield better musical enjoyment?Don't get all anxious about the whole thing, yeah, I know that's difficult. But obviously as you have discovered, planning doesn't always bring the music. Sometimes (unfortunately), you've got to go through a few trials/tribulations. Patience will serve you best.
When you have arrived at music with a musical cart/arm combo, stick with it. Don't be in a big fired hurry to move 'up'. Rest a while, enjoy. Then you have your own reference to compare to/with. And return to, after any potential pretenders evaluation (always try to change only one variable at a time).
You'll know you're there when you daydream about acquiring more vinyl.
I would highly warn against tracking higher with an XLM, or most ADCs for that matter. An XLM suspension was not built to take it. In fact, it would lead to a quick death in many cases. The supplied instruction sheet warns against it, too.
The reason I ask, is that my stylus and cart were mounted on the arm and the armboard came loose, the stylus was damaged and I just put a new stylus on it. Now that I think about it I wonder if the cart was damaged also?
Maybe I just need to try another $200 xlm cart and stylus from the BB guys......dang, this is getting expensive.....
Maybe I can get used to CD again....nah, not likely.....
robert
The cartridge should be fine. The stylus would be iffy if someone stressed the suspension. That's easy to do with an ADC, if the manufacturer's instructions are ignored.
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