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Hi All:Has anyone had experience with replacing the plastic spindle assembly on a Rega TT (mine is a P5) and is willing to share the result?
I've seen the metal spindle (flywheel) and acrylic platter for sale in several places, but haven't seen any real life feedback from satisfied users.
Some of these upgrades, saphire bearings, etc. cost more than the turntable once you put them all in; are they worth it?
Follow Ups:
In my opinion the Ikea lack is a no brainer for the money.
Any solid coupled counterweight is a no brainer.Yes solid coupled.It
is what all the aftermarket weights have in common.It does not change
VTF on warps if you leave the stock Rega VTF spring alone.That spring
actually is trying to lift the arm on warps to offset the change in VTF and is the Genius of Roy Gandy.Which way does the arm go when there is no cartridge on the arm?It goes full up.Any metal subplatter if properly machined is valid.It has nothing to do with mass or weight and has everything to do with improving speed
stability through more accurate manufacture.(Less runout)Dave Coston is the only inmate that I have supplied with a dual belt
motor pulley.Ask him about it.It also improves speed stability.As mentioned,a good $600.00 plus cartridge and approximately $1000.00
phono stage with separate power supply.When all the basics are right I have found the stock Rega felt mat on the
glass platter to be the best.Brightness or blurring of the sound stage is primsrily from poor speed stability or poor cartridge and
phono stage as in solid state(Tubes are best IMHO).If anyone would care to read the original Rega owners manual,it is recommended by Rega to sit the table on a small light rigid table
for best perfomance.(IKEA Lack anyone)
I've read them all and will consider them carefully.
new phono, assuming that you still use phono in the receiver.
I have been unwilling to upgrade because why spend money when you can just buy a better turntable. Although, the tonearm wire upgrade seems to be the only justfiable modification price-wise. I am curious which is the best bang for the buck.Here is where I have come so far, and I would not turn back on any of these suggestions:
1. A good cartridge -- $600 retail seems good to me. I would think about this before sinking money into other mods.
2. A good base -- I use a, I forgot already, but anything is good. A maple butcher block is surperb actually, which I don't use, but should.
3. A record clamp. Certainly. I would never go back on this one. I use a KAB.
4. A new mat. I just got one at a garage sale. I have been dissatified with the Rega mat for some time and finally found something I like -- it is made in Sweden, but no identification.
The butcher block can help with bass but in my experience things get a bit tubby, flat, and lifeless.The record clamp is classic heavy / damped VPI-style, and contrary to the Rega philosophy. I would not expect this to help a Rega.
These tweaks fail because they go against the philosophy of the turntable itself: keep things light and rigid. The point is to drain vibrations quickly.Good support, such as an Ikea Lack table ($15) is worthwhile.
On P3 or lower, new tonearm wire is worthwhile.
Stay away from acrylic platter and heavyweight tonearm tweaks.
They really didn't fail. How can you say that when I put them in and they succeeded?
"These tweaks fail because they go against the philosophy of the turntable itself: keep things light and rigid. The point is to drain vibrations quickly."Exactly.
A light, rigid support and top notch wire are all these 'tables need to make tight, lively, emotionally connective music. Using an acrylic platter or adding mass anywhere screws up Rega's great pacing and negates the entire design goal. These tweaks may seem "bigger and warmer" to hifi new comers, but bloated bass, smeared note attack, and lackluster rhythm aren't the ticket to an involving musical presentation.
Are you joking, Ikea Lack table? If you're going to bash Rega tweaks, at least recommend a good foundation such as Ken Lyon's Nuance platform. It's no wonder they call this place the asylum.
Using an ikea lack tabletop on your rack with a Rega works killer. Indeed, a poor man's nuance.
It was Ken Lyon who came up with the idea of using the light, rigid Ikea Lack as a TT support in the first place. They may be a poor man's Neuance, but they sound a lot better than many big-buck mass-loaded audiophool racks.
I respect Ken a great deal but I do not cite the Ikea Lack table as a RIGID support. I have toyed with one myself. They are nothing like the Nuance, I own one myself and my P3 sits happily on it. Mentioning an Ikea Lack table in the same sentence as the Nuance has got to be a joke, you're kidding.....aren't you. If not, what do they have in common? Oh, I do agree, the Lack table is light.
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Have you actually ever tried any of these or are you just against the philosophy of tweaking? Some people are. That is fine. I am not (nor will I ever be) in a position to afford a table that costs thousands of dollars. Then, you have to go out and buy an arm, cartridge and pre-amp of some sort that goes with it. All of this can end up costing as much as an automobile. With a Rega, there are many options that can change the sound of the table for the better. There is a whole camp out there that still like the sound of the LP 12, before the Cirkus upgrade and all that. That is fine. I just like to see what tweaks will do, for better or worse. To tell someone to leave it alone is like telling someone to close their mind. I have several Planar 3s that have all been tweaked to some degree. They all sound different from each other and they all sound better than the stock version, to me. I say, try your tweaks in moderation. Do not go out and do several things at once. Examine what each one does to the sound. If you like it, then try something else. Just keep an open mind and listen.
I've tried the heavyweight tonearm mod. I've tried acrylic platter. I've tried heavy/massive supports. I haven't tried the metal subplatter. But based on everything I have tried, the concept of mass kills the Rega's musicality. Every time. Sucks the life out of it, as Ken Lyon says.
They said this same kind of thing with the Linn Cirkus upgrade. I said this earlier. Some people just like the sound they have and do not want to tamper with it at all. I also think that what some people call the "life" in the sound of a table is just a particular distortion that they find appealing. When this distortion is removed, they do not hear the "sound" they liked before and so they say it has to be bad. I listen for detail in the music, but not at the expense of the entire musical picture. If a tweak makes one thing great and the rest sound awful, then the tweak is bad. This is why I try about everything. If I feel that it brings me closer to the music, it is good. A Nuance shelf is a tweak. You could say that Mr. Gandy did not design the Rega using this type of support. So, we are going against his design philosophy/wishes. If you like the sound of your table with a Nuance shelf, then is there anything wrong with this? I do not think so. You could change the brand of tires that are on your car. You feel a smoother ride and better contact with the road. You like the way it feels, when you drive it. Where these tires part of the design philosophy behind the car? No, but you feel a better driving experience. There are a lot of bad tweaks out there, but I do not think that it is good to discourgage experimentation. Just listen and decide.
"A Nuance [sic] shelf is a tweak. You could say that Mr. Gandy did not design the Rega using this type of support. So, we are going against his design philosophy/wishes."Rega's setup flyers recommend a light, rigid, level shelf for their turntables--Neuance caters to this design philosophy in an exceptional way.
I am just reporting my experiences with a certain kind of tweak. The numerous mass-oriented tweaks that seem to help VPI and other mass-loving turntables simply have not worked for me on my Rega. That's what I am saying. I said nothing about tweaking in general. I admitted that I have the tweak bug myself. For example, a tweak that worked for my Rega was using the thin rubber shelf liner from the grocery store for the mat. It also acts as a VTA-lowering device. Ha!I find it very useful to read other people's experiences with tweaks before I try one. That's why I'm reporting my results with the ones that are mentioned here. OMalley had different results. That's great, it's the whole point of forums like this for people to relate their various experiences.
Hukk
you say a change makes a positive difference and they talk concept.
I have tried some of the tweaks you have done and I have had the smae experience as you. They were for the positive and removed 'distorion', as you pointed out.
You're hitting on all cylinders Huk!
Whether this is a wall mount or a good audio rack doesn't matter. The Rega is an excellent deck on a good support. When I listen to Rega's (I've owned 3 3s) I hear what the deck is sitting upon. With a good support the Planar 3 / P3 could justify the expensive of an expensive phono cartridges - without a good support you won't get most of the benefit of a $200 + phono cartridge.Other tweeks - I wouldn't mess with em.
The Groovetracer products are the best you can buy, if you want to upgrade your Rega. I am weird and have to try every possible Rega tweak out there. Ha! The Groovetracer line is of the best quality available and will yield the best results. I had many issues with the Deepgroove subplatter. There were a lot of quality control issues there. The idea is good, the machining is not. Out of five different Deepgrooves that I have owned, one had no problems. The Groovetracers were all perfect.
i think i might have got the one good Deepgroove subplatter you had so going with the Groovetracer is something I would do if I were going to buy these mods first timeout.I just read a good way to get VTA for cheap. Buy the finger nut and move the nut from under the table to top and use that as the VTA adjuster and the finger nut underneath to secure the arm. cheap at about $25 total. I am going to try that instead of adding the Michel adjuster, and before going to the VTAF.
....won't that royally mess up your VTA? As in, similar to using a 20 mm shim instead of 2mm?
you put the finger nut underneath the table as per usual but now you take taht left over big nut taht was securing the arm a minute ago, and use it topside as the VTA adjuster.
Anybody heard of one?Or a 3 mm shim? When I was really "into" VTA experimentation on my Rega P25, I wished for a 3mm thick shim. The 2 was sliiiiiiightly too wooly, the 4 was sliiiiiiightly too bright. But, either one was "OK."
a 2mm nut, that is.
When the finger nut comes in i will go buy a few 2 mm nuts of different composition and give them a try.i did have a look at the nut after Garth's past and it is thick enough to rob me of too many threads un the plinth.
Ultimately I can opt for the Michel VTAQ adjuster; It is cheap at around $50.
And on a P3 I doubt the threads will even be showing to put on the bottom nut underneath the plinth.
i have a 4mm spacer on their now and the nut is thicker than that so VTA will go up. There are threads showing under there now and the fingernut fits tight in the cutout under the plinth.i will try it when the finger nut comes in and see.
see the link below.the subplatter is very worth it. the better machined subplatter moves much smoother and makes the music flow smoother with less tension. There seems to be more space.
i have the MDF platter which is supposed to be the mean between acrylic[warm] and glass[cold]. trite descritptions but i wouldn't know any better because i just stayed with the MDF and didn't listen to the others.
"Some of these upgrades, saphire bearings, etc. cost more than the turntable once you put them all in; are they worth it?"
the cost of the upgrades i put in so far has been less than, say, $350.
...less than the cost of the table. I bought used and on ebay. the sound was very much improved and that can be seen as worth it.the way i saw it was that i could upgrade for bits at a time becuase it didn't have $750 for a turntable at that moment.
~Slainte,
The OMalley
The Groove Tracer Subplatter, and Acrylic platter are exceptional.
I recently purchased (August 2006) the Subplatter with Sapphire, and the Acrylic platter.
I have had my Rega 25 for about 2 years, I listened to it infrequently because it really wasn't interesting. I have about 500 LPs that were just sitting there and I knew that there must be a better way to enjoy them in lieu of spending 3 thousands dollars. (ie purchasing high dollar turntable). I read the review on Tone-Audio, and the literature on groovetracer.com. The descriptions are very accurate. The products are impeccable machined and delivered with excellent instructions.
My system includes Rega P25, Audio Technica OC9, Audioquest B100 cartridges.
The improvements in sound I now experience over my stock P25 are:
Bass transient response, and much deeper response. Midrange depth and images with a clearly defined space between performers. Treble much more detail, though with no distortion or edginess. The improvement in articulation is really incredible.
The surfaces of the LP are quieter, the groove noise is reduced quite a bit.
Before this upgrade my CD's sounded better than my LP's. Now with the two Groovetracer products I find it hard to play any CD, the LP's are so alive and riveting.
Touch base with Frank at Groove Tracer.
I recently posted about the theoretical (and actual, it seems) sonic benefits of underslung C/W's on Rega arms, despite disadvantages in terms of the 'dynamics' of the arm's warp warp tracing. I'd forgotten about the Groovetracer C/W.BTW, with the hub and acrylic platter form Groovetacer, you're well on the way to complete DIY turntable, if you felt inclined.
FWIW, I second the GrooveTrace products. I have the Counterweight, Acrylic PLatter and Subplatter on my P3, and with my Shelter 501, I don't think anything under $2500 can touch it.
Frank is a First Class guy who will spend time talking about your specific needs and wants.
Here is the link:
http://www.groovetracer.com/
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