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I'd like to try one of the .4 mv carts (Shelter) or .6 mv (Lyra) but I don't know if my PV-10A can handle that low a signal.Right now I'm running a Benz Glider 2 HO (2.5mv) and that's probably too much output.
According to an old Sphile review, the PV-10A puts out 48.5 db of gain in the phono stage, and 17 db in the line stage.
Appreciate any thoughts on the preamp/matching/or the carts. Mostly classical listener, but the rest of my system is very warm so I'd like a cart that is not so warm.
VPI JMW10 and Mk III table, Cary CAD-50mkII monos (KT-90s), Meadowlark Shearwaters.
Follow Ups:
There are a variety of relatively inexpensive phonostages - especially if you bought used - that will work using your PV10 as a linestage. For a couple years I had a Camelot Lancelot Pro that I got off Agon that I used with my CJ preamp and Shelter 901. More dollars, yes, but that way you'd have flexible options for cartridge and both gain and impedance matching. And you'd have a component that would let you upgrade your preamp down the road without requiring it include a phonostage. Otherwise, with 48.5db of gain, you might have better luck with a MM or HOMC having ~1mv of output. Try the KAB gain computer in the link below.Rgds,
Tim
it appears my 48.5 gain works best with exactly one brand of cart: the medium output Benz line at .8 to 1.0.Also, I kind of wondered how my 18 db preamp gain works into this issue,... (48.5 phono gain, 18 db preamp gain).
match. You will need a step up tranny for either of these cartridges.
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails
Even a 1.10 with either of those cartidges will be way too much with 48dB gain in the phono section.A SUT is the way to go with the preamp but with a lower output cartridge, say 0.2mV.
You may recall I successfully used 1:10 S&B stepups with my c-j PV-11A and several .4-.6mV cartridges, such as Shelter 901 and various ZYX's.My PV-11A is similar to his PV-10A, the MM inputs have 47db of gain and 47Kohm impedance.
I'll admit the gain control sensitivity was pretty high, but there were never any overload issues and the ample gain from the SUT's kept tube rush at inaudible levels. This setup worked very well until we upgraded to a more more expensive preamp.
__________
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - JRRT
But I still would not "recommend" a 0.4-0.6mV cart., 20dB SUT and 50dB phono gain.
I HV similiar problem.
TLA
The Wright does have gain adjustments, but I doubt I have it turned down past 48 db. I thought 48 db was about standard gain for MM preamps.
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails
fudging on the specs. It is really more like 40ish dB.And it depends on the cartridge output. Like I said a 0.2mv cartridge with the properly loading will work fine with a 1:10 transformer and 40-50db gain. But not with a 0.6mV cartridge which is what the original poster is talking about.
I've never heard anything about Wright fudging on the specs. . You are the first I've ever heard say this.
I've done a search, and read a bunch about loading, and don't understand it one bit.I don't even understand if your comment is directed at the CJ or the two carts I proposed, that's how far I have to go.
I don't understand it technically, but MC cartridges load at about 100 ohms whereas MM load at 47k ohms. Load them improperly and they don't perform as they should. The step up transformer not only increases the output, but it also changes the loading. IE a 1;10 tranny plugged into a 47K preamp results in a loading of 470 ohms, which is acceptable to most MC cartridges. This is a simplistic explanation. There are others here who can tell you more about the technicalities of it than I can. But hopefully this explanation will work for rudimentary understanding.
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails
http://www.vinylengine.com/step_up_2.shtml
JRags
"Always Searching for Perfection"
FWIW, I have always heard that it usually takes 55db or higher to run LOMC. That was the general wisdom a few yrs back. Maybe the chart says different. I don't know. But then too, I am assuming that his phono preamp is not set up for 100 ohm loading either, since its low output seems to match MM rather than the typical MC cartridge. Thus my recommendation of a tranny
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails
I thought low output was .23 or .25.CJ says that the preamp will work with .5mv carts, but, again, I don't really understand how loading factors into this (yes, I've reviewed the archives, and don't understand it any better).
The next question arises about the loading. Does your preamp have switchable loading? IOW's is there a switch near the phono input marked MC-MM. If so, you can probably use the cartridges if you switch it to the MC setting.(MC = moving coil which usually has a loading of 100 ohms vs moving magnet which loads at 47k ohms.) However you may need to turn up the volume quite a lot more than normal, because you are right on the cusp of needing more gain. If you have the MC switch, one of the cartridges you mentioned might be worth a try. if you find you don't have enough gain, then you can get the tranny. K&K makes a pretty good one for the $$$. They are a sponsor here also. The cost is about $200 assembled. Hope this helps
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails
I didn't know that a good step up would be that low in cost. Sounds like I can go for one of the .6 ones (which CJ tells me will work with my PV10) and if not, get a step up.The weird thing with my loading is that it says "100-47k" which means basically everything.
I'm not worried about turning up the volume (right now I have the opposite problem: very little volume control), and I think my cart is overloading the rest of the system.
... and I can tell you, it is extremely neutral, it does not seem to have much inherent warmness at all. If the recording is warm, it glows with warmness... if the recording is neutral, it is totally neutral. If your system sounds warm already, it should be a good match.The stylus is extremely revealing, BTW. I was using a Blue Point No. 2 before and with the Dorian I hear dirt in the grooves I did not hear with the BP No.2. Time to clean my records again...
The surface noise seemed to reduce over the break-in period as well.
You will probably find also that the Dorian will also loosen up more with time, might well sound good now but later on.... My Argo took quite a few albums and man hours.... It was hell I can tell you, listening to all that good music.
But as it broke in there was a lot less surface noise. Mine now is near silent on most pressings.Have fun,
What preamp are you using it with?
The Dorian/Vanguard does seem to lack a little warmth overall compared to the BP No. 2/Sumiko Phono Box II I was using for. The Dorian/Vanguard definitely sounds cleaner, more refined, more accurate, but overall it is a bit less emotionally involving, at least to me. I know the new gear is in a whole different league in terms of quality, but this is just what I am finding.For example- with the Blue Point No.2/Phono Box II pretty much everything sounded warm and nice. Adding the Vanguard to the BP2 made it sound even better. The Vanguard/Dorian is SO accurate I may prefer something less accurate! For example... I played "It was a Very Good Year" by Frank Sinatra. The recording is a bit warm and I have to tell you, the Dorian/Vanguard simply blew me away with the sound AND emotional involvement. Then I played some Bryan Adams from "Cuts Like a Knife". Sounds great but my foot didn't get tapping.
One of my favorite Sinatra songs, and one of my favorite songs ever.
Just switched from 47k to 100k and it seems to sound better. What effect does that have, and how does it work?
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