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In Reply to: How many love deep extended bass and have the equipment to do it? posted by tubesforever on September 11, 2006 at 20:13:33:
maybe I'm wrong.
I have a REL subwoofer which is very capable. I thought that most would be running some type of sub woofer system.
BTW, Yes, I do like the deep extended bass.
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails
Follow Ups:
Cleanest deepest bass you could want without bloat or boom. Just an awesome rush of subsonics without any unpleasant aftertaste...
"deepness".
And this is pretty low. Consider the sound of a 60 Hz hum for example. This is why I believe many listeners can be satisfied with a smaller, bass-limited speaker that only plays to 55 or 60 Hz. But, as a jazz lover, I consider the ability to reproduce clean bass down to 40 Hz to be essential.However, real low frequencies are found in the octave below 40 Hz, usually the realm of sub-woofers (there is a hint in their name!). For this, listen to bass drum, piano (rare), organ, or most commonly, synthesizer. So, examples of any four-string bass player recordings are relevant for bass reproduction, but not low bass.
Takes 25 watts to produce just that one note on a speaker system. Most amps won't get there since they cannot pass enough current or have enough slew rate.That's why I have a Class A amp on my subsonic reinforcement driver. Clean reproduction to 10 hz as if my speakers could do that!
I just love the growl you hear from the Cellos and the Bass players. The Grado Ref Master captures this growl perfectly. My speakers play it decently well.The new amp is 250 watts per channel at 8 ohms and 500 watts per channel at 4 ohms. This adds a 100 watts per channel to what I have cooking now! I have two Peerless XLS 12 inch drivers in two separate cabinets so I can fine tune the subsonics. I have a variety of crossovers to play with from 75 hz to 175 hz to match the room dynamics.
Such fun!
FWIW, Rel uses 10" drivers exclusively in their subs.
A 75 hz note and a 37 hz note are exactly how far apart? Probably one or two notes on the scale. Certainly well within the same half octave.REL uses extreme crossover circuitry to achieve their cut offs. My 75 hz second order passive filter has much higher dcr than RELS extremely complex active cross over circuit.
Adding the DCR of the coil to the Crossover point of the circuit is critical with second order crossovers. This is why my second order crossover sounds similar to the more advanced REL circuitry.
Remember mine is all passive crossovers while REL uses active circuitry to accomplish their crossover.
Check their website.http://www.rel.net/index2.htm
I should have stated the "ST" series which is their reference line.
speaker placement and room acoustics.My speakers and subwoofer aren't in the same full range class as some of the systems mentioned here but I have the high filter for the subwoofer set at 70dB (similar to what Tubes uses), which you point out, is higher than many people recommend. But with the inherent rolloff of my speaker's bass response (running full range) I find that the subwoofer fills in that weak spot in the frequency range. I may have gotten lucky but the overlap blends in quite well; ie, the subwoofer doesn't sound like a subwoofer and the bass doesn't have a "muddy" sound. Bass notes and drum beats are fairly well defined and appropriately located in the sound space.
I know that my speakers could be better. I'd like to someday have a set of full range speakers and subwoofers with very tight bass. But for what I paid for the speakers and subwoofer it sounds pretty darn good.
I'm doing more-or-less the same thing with a Hsu STF-2 crossed over at ~ 80Hz and a pair of Axiom M22ti rolling off naturally. I'm splitting the signal at the line level and driving the Axioms with a highly modified Dynaco ST35. While not up to the standards of some systems (for example, Tannoy Autographs) in terms of bass extension and weight, it does pretty damn well on organ music and bowed double-bass.Besides, my wife won't allow big-ass corner horns. :-)
It integrates well and has very tight deep bass.
HT subs are generally not good for 2 channel listening, because of the bloated bass you spoke about. I also have some vintage Infinity RS5's in a second system which will go down pretty deep, but like most speakers of their era, will not compete with a good sub like the REL.
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails
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