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In Reply to: O'Mally's observation is not surprising. This is why I do not understand this CDR swapping posted by artemus on September 9, 2006 at 06:51:00:
I never claimed a CDR from my vinyl front end would sound in anyones system to sound like it does in my own.I simply ran a comparison cdr of two cartridges on two different platforms just to see what people thought of the comparison. You can only hear what my two tables transcribe--nothing else.
Inmates with high resolution systems seem to hear what I hear and Inmates with standard resolution systems can often hear something completely different. Plus there are built in preferences in sound reproduction. Many prefer a deep rounded bass line. I do not. I like it taught, extended and highly detailed. Many prefer a softer high end--they do not like to hear the air and the sometime sibilant sounds that go along with this type of transducer.
I make no judgements in this hobby. We all start from some basic place and then move toward what we most enjoy. This is all good in my opinion. I enjoy sharing these cdr's for another purpose, to create a culture where we can hear a cdr of someone's front end in our own system and compare it to what we have.
John Elison being top flight, actually compared my cdr against his own cdr recording he burned. This is actually a better apples to apples comparison since now the comparison is cdr to cdr vs cdr to vinyl.
Many have commented that the real lps played on their system sound better than my cdr. Well it sounds better played back LP in my system by a long shot as well.
This is a limitation of D to A conversion in my opinion. It softens, thickens, and rolls off the LP experience that I enjoy the most.
Don't worry about others opinions on the asylum. They belong to them. I come here to learn, to share, and to experiment with friends and colleagues. If they want to tear me time to time that is fine! I probably deserve it!
Follow Ups:
hey, btw, how can you have such a high resolving system with such a high noise floor?"John Elison being top flight, actually compared my cdr against his own cdr recording he burned. This is actually a better apples to apples comparison since now the comparison is cdr to cdr vs cdr to vinyl." What? This diverges into a little bit of bullshit, don't you think? How can it apples to apples if ... ... Dude, I think I am opting out of this whole CDR thing for good from now on. It is a quagmire.
BTW, as a parting shot, does John Elison share you belief that the DA conversion blunts the copy? I think not. Oh, god, what a mess.
But John's idea when he spun my cdr was to compare it against the same songs he had burned as cdrs. That way the cd player and cables were apples to apples. The only thing different was the cdr recordings. That makes sense in an A B X comparison test. He was testing. You were listening.So he limited the variability...that is all. From a scientific standpoint his evaluation was the most closely matched comparison. He preferred his vinyl front end to mine. In comparison he has about 100 times more money invested and his CDR's sound really fine.
I do not agree with everything you say nor do I agree with everything John says.
....and I am a fun guy to get high with! Not so sure about Elison, I do not know him as well as I know you ;-).
And whats with this I want to opt out crap....This is not a lifetime membership type of deal. I will not send you anything you don't want to spin.
I trust your ears...actually your wife's ears are probably less ineubriated! I thought you might like to hear a Denon on a Technics so you could compare it to your Rega. I think the Rega might do the Denon better justice. I found the Technics just made too much wooly bass for my tastes.
KT88 will love me for that endorsement! Where has he been lately?
If you want to try a 103R I am happy to ship you mine for a couple of weeks. I think you have enough gain since you have my AU300OC!
i aint jumping in those CDR threads no more. promises promises.I am now in a dilemma. I just saw an armless Thorens TD-111 which is an idler but the motor turns another wheel via belt thus decoupling the motor from the idle wheel.
Yeah, I would love to try the Denon. I was gearing up to buy one but now i may plunk down on that Thorens.
Belt driven to an idler interface. It was a dead quiet table. I upgraded to a Thorens TD165MKII It was just 175 dollars more and I still have it! Although it is tweaked to death. I was spinning it this week. I plan to mount the DL103R on the thing unless you want to try it for a couple of weeks.
I would love to be able to try it. You never get the chance to try a cartridge to "see".In return I have 2 RCA Cleartops and Philips JAN 6189 that are that you can tryout if you have a place for them.
which implies thatpeople who don;t hear what you hear have less resolving systems which then diverges into all kinds of back and forth.I find the CDR burning/testing thing flawed. For all the resons that were mentioned by artemus.
I did it because you asked me to and really to see what was up with it.
You can send me your cartridges and that would be a fair test. :-)
BTW, if there is an admitted limitation to DA conversion then the whole shooting match falls on it's own lights. It may be interesting to a test like this but it really means nothing.
My preferences are for detail in bass and topend. I also want that thing called 'music' above special effects. The CDRs show some special effects on the one cart and nothing like bass definition or balanced top end extension on either. Blame on my CDR, or my whatever. Or blame it on the CDR copying. You see what I am saying?
Yeah, I was kinda surprised no one else had jumped on that yet :)
Most home branded speakers are flat to at least 18khz. Redbook is good to 20khz. You need a metal dome or ribbon to get past 22khz cleanly.Teresa and I both have speakers that really get way out to the upper limits of audio reproduction. A decent set of horns or ribbon like technology is what creates a high resolving system.
By the way, some of the very best selling speakers in the world had a response no better than 28-17khz, and even that was a bit bumpy. They are great resolving speakers but not high resolution speakers.
Hopefully we do not flame about frequency response and speakers, there is more to frequency response than the drivers alone. For instance my midfi Kenwood and Pioneer Elite phono sections only resolved to 14khz. They were fun to listen to but the Jolida just wipes them away in comparison.
Depending upon your age, it's not likely you can hear above 17 kHz anyway. Are you sure you can? Have you measured your listening room freq response?Your explanations seem a bit condescending, don't think most folks here have a fairly good handle on this stuff?
BTW, my speakers do extend above 20K (measured in my listening room), but as I said, doesn't really matter for me.
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