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In Reply to: Rumble posted by Mpoes on December 18, 2005 at 11:23:13:
With what cartridge? That is the missing piece of the puzzle here. It could be called rumble I suppose as a mismatched cartridge and arm could accentuate that. It is as likely to be poor isolation and some vibration getting in from the outside. Rumble as expressed in a turntable spec would include only noise generated by the table itself and not external noise. Still noise is noise and any low frequency vibes are gonna cause the woofers to "rumble". A subsonic filter or a wall shelf would help if it is not a cartridge mismatch but an isolation issue.
-Bill
Follow Ups:
sorry, the cartrige is the Grado Sonata Refrence.It is isolated on tiptoe spikes, sitting on top of a 3" thick butcher block shelf connected to a rack that weights over 300lbs. Though maybe still not as isolated as a wall bracket, This is pretty well isolated, I have never had problems with footfall or anything of the sort. I am doupting its picking up noise from an outside source, but I wont rule it out.
The Grado is a pretty high compliance cartridge but it may benefit from a heavier arm still. The SME series II would be perhaps the most appropriate if that is what you have there. The series III is as or near as light as the ADC. Any edge warps will produce these results often enough as will the table suspension not been tuned properly. On an older table, it is possible the springs have some sag and could benefit from a stiffer support like new springs or some foam rubber inserts in the springs. If you can tighten the springs to make the table less bouncy that should help. You can test the arm weight (cartridge/arm mismatch) by loading the arm with some more weight. Simply wrap a few grams of weight around it near the headshell, zero-out the arm again and re-adjust the tracking force. If that cures it, the easiest fix would be to try another brand cartridge. The Grado sound is hard to reproduce with other brands though if you really like that. Maybe something as easy as a suspension tune-up and a whole armtube wrap would cure it and allow you to use the Grado. I have set-up an Lp12 here with a Grado a while back and didn't have any problems at the shop but I believe it had a Linn arm. Good luck.
-Bill
Thankyou, this was very helpful, I intend to take a final look now at the suspension tuning and see, I have actually never played with that. I even still have the bottom cover on, which I hear can affect the sound.I have considered changing the arm so many times. The SME is a series III, and like I said, has issues, I have taken it apart to clean, but the bearings look to be in bad shape, and even reoiling didn't make the arm move as smoothly as the ADC, which gives me pause to use it. If I was to decided to purchase a new arm for my table, do you think one designed around this basic idea, such as one of the Linn arms would be a good idea. I see people go nuts for the older SME arms, like the Series II, and they go for quite a bit of money, as much or more as many decent new ones.
Well, if it doesn't move as easily and it doesn't look good, I'd say that you are right. People do like the older SME arms as they are good quality and you can sometimes find them for a low price, but they are becoming more scarce and more damaged arms are showing up so it is a big risk buying used. If you can find someone that you trust and who stands behind the arm, like a dealer or even an inmate here that has a lot of nice feedback from others, maybe you will have a good chance of getting a better arm. I would get a series II if you do get an older SME as it is a medium mass arm and can be used with a wider range of cartridges. If you can afford an SME 309 it would be the bomb. A new Rega RB300 can be bought for that money with warranty also. People like all of these arms on the Thorens tables. I think the larger tube designs like the RB series and the 309 really offer the best sound for the money. Both are also medium mass designs. Getting an older sprung suspension to settle down in some environments can be a challenge. If you have a cement floor, you should have no trouble. I would also recommend a "sandbox" type isolation platform to replace the block of wood to help control vibration before it gets into the table.
-Bill
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