 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
198.240.130.75
Hello,I have been contemplating a downgrade for some time in my vinyl rig due to lack of listening time and focus of funds elsewhere. I have a line on an excellent conditioned Thorens TD150 MkII w/original tonearm, everything included as it was new.
I currently have an LP12/Lingo/Ittok LVIII mk2/Lyra Argo.
I like the fact the Thorens is a tweakable table and is similar to the LP12. I realize this is a huge step down but if I replace the arm with say a Rega RB250, will I be totally deflated with the sound?
I know the cartridge will depend upon the arm but I really like my Argo and would keep that when I sell the LP12.
Any Thorens guys who have had an LP12, I appreciate your comments.
Thanks
Follow Ups:
Stick with the Linn setup. Yes, there are better turntables; no the Thorens set up is not one of them. Otherwise we'll be hearing from you in a couple of months with a "I can't believe I did that" posting!;)
Keith
nt
Dean.
He thinks that the LP12 and a tweaked up 150 are about equal I think. He owns both.
.
Reverse situation - I had a Thorens TD160C with their TP16 tonearm before switching to an LP12.One problem I had - and it may be unique to that unit - was electrical noise "breakthough" from mains supply/motor to phono ouput signal cable.
It was not that obvious when I was still using an AT410 MM cartridge, but when I tried an MC (AT-OC5), it was overpowering - drowning the signal in a 50Hz "buzz". It was the primary reason for moving to the LP12.
I had taken the TD160 into the Thorens agents many times and they could not rectify the problem. To be fair, the problem may well have been in the TP16 tonearm and its harness - something the local agents in S. Africa were not equipped to change... :-(
I'd work on the premise that you will need to switch the tonearm, and the RB250 is good bet - just check on availability of armboards/mounts for the TD150 + RB250...
Have fun and check out any other feedback for any parallels in terms of electrical breakthrough...
:-)
"Don't roll those blood-shot eyes at me!"
I think I recall seeing in some listing that it was better built and better isolated.Dick Schneiders
Your Linn is essentially just a knock off of the Thorens
TD 150 anyway, and the fact that Ivan and his marketing department
got you invested into thier endless upgrade/profit center deal
doesn't necessarilly mean you'll be significantly downgrading or perhaps even downgrading at all, as in my experience Thorens TD 150's are inherently musical and very engageing turntables.I also think Linnies are known for being a bit over the top
like some arcane religious orders ;-)Regards FredJ
HeHe ..There goes Fred, clad in his Gnomex suit..having got his TD125 'more musical' (or not) by coating it in Chicken Dung.I've used these 2 decks almost continuously from 1971...one after the other.
You'll have a hard job matching the Linn sound (desirable?) with the 150.
I can easily see 15/20% of the price obtained for the Linn combo going in an arm + 'tweaks' (lots of..).I've also had the RB300 since its introduction.
Never tried it on the Linn (although it's currently residing on a Linn laminated armboard)..however it worked nicely on the 150.The 150 simply doesn't have the engineering quality required to match the Linn - and you need to take care that the bearing is a good fit- and use some 'loaded' oil (such as the Linn graphite) to keep things 'tight'.
That's where the Linn really scores - and is FAR less resonant an assembly...also the 150 has a 'wobbly' suspension (= wow..) and the motor is poorly shielded - so you can easily hear Hum in a variety of cartridges (Grado/MC..).
Many other tweaks are desirable to make it sound 'decent'.Another path would be to keep the LP12 - sell the Lingo/Ittok - which would release most of the value - then install a Rega/Linn Basik arm or something of that quality (I can't comment on an SME3009 in the Linn - although I use those arms..)
[presumably the Linn would still operate without the Lingo?]
Frank
From what I'd heard only Linn owners are allowed to circumvent
Purgatory entirely, get the $200, pass go and ascend directly to Heaven largely due to thier power supply's and other upgrades until one reaches the exhaulted "Full Blown Linn Uber Alles level" ;-)All kidding aside a TD 150 with the platter bearing carefully polished and the well full of a good grade of automotive sysnthetic motor oil, the judicious application of some Dynamat, removal of the cheesy thin fibre board bottom and replaced with a more substantial
MDF one and the right feet/isolation base and or wall rack is an
excellent table period, the TP 13 or 13a (stock TD 150 mk II arm)
will easily hold it's own with a Rega RB 300 particularly if it's been re-wired.But my Linn experience is after all very limited, never actually owned one, but have 2 long term friends who are serious Linnies, and they can be truly wonderful tables at least to those of us who are into suspended tables of that Ilk, and I am admittedly Thorens
biased.BTW does the Peace Corp operate in the UK ? as far as innoculating the kids, teaching the indiginous Brit. Islanders efficient Hog breeding using slit trenchs to preclude Cholera, dysintery and Typhus etc. I was thinking a Carbon Fibre brush enlightenment
program might be in order, no ? ;-)Definately rigged out in Gnomex Fred :-O
I dunno... This guy seems to like it.Quote from the article: "One of the finest record players I heard was a Naim Aro/Koetsu cartridge on a tweaked TD150."
Link's at the bottom.
Bobbo :-)
The Brits love their Land Rovers & Jags too...that doesn't mean there aren't better out there!HiFi World is really into retro equipment, which is fine, but don't tell me it is "better" than anything modern. We can manufacture to tighter tolerances. Just take a micrometer to the bearing shaft of an old Thorens vs say a Roksan Xerses 20, no contest, the Roksan is better made.
(singing) Yooou don't have to put on the red light...But seriously - here's a post from another message board:
"I've never owned a Xerses, but was quite keen on getting one until research turned up a few problems.
The main problem being that the sawcut arm peninsula portion of the top board tends to sag under the weight of the tonearm over time. This problem is compounded by the fact that Roksan no longer provide replacement top boards for the deck (which really bothers me as they still do produce turntables, and its just a bloody slab of wood).
The second problem is that the early power supplies tended to self destruct at the merest hint of a voltage spike. I believe that there were three versions of the power supply during the tables production life, with the last one offering the best performance and reliability. I don't know if any of these are currently available.
Setup of the original Xerses was reportely a bit of a nightmare, considering that it was only semi-suspended. The motor trimming in particualar was a bit of the bend it until it lines up affair, and there were numerous reports of platters rubbing topboards."
That being said, I'd still love to have one. They are a sexy beast.
Anyway, I don't have experience with an LP-12. I'd like a chance to actually hear one up against a TD150 for the Hell of it. Given their very similar construction (some guys claim the TD150 bearing is better than the Linn's, but I dunno.) I can't imagine there would be a huge difference. Granted, the finish & cosmetics on the Linn is better.
According to highendaudio.com: "Thorens TD-150 and TD-125- These are similar in design and sound to an older, stock Linn Sondek. "
How a product is marketed, and our perceptions about the quality of any product greatly influences how well we perceive it's performance.
Does a $1000 pair of Manolo Blahnik shoes last 10 times longer than a $100 pair? Are they 10 times as comfortable? Does a $700 Prada bag last 20 times longer and hold 20 times more stuff than a $35 purse?
I know audio equipment is much more sophisticated than ladies fashion doo-dads. But a lot of the same marketing B.S. applies. Some guys with their stereos and their cars are like women with their Manolo Blahniks.
Some are about the music, some are into the gadget aspect, and for some it's one-upmanship and a pissing contest.
Cheers,
Bobbo :-)
Those comments are directed to the original Xerses. Roksan does sell a "repair kit" for this 20 year old turntable. The Xerses X overcame these problems & the Xerses 20 is even better.It seems to me people are comparing old Thorens to LP12s of the same vintage. Yes TD150 has likely aged better than an LP12 that has not been looked after. The Thorens tended to be simpler, so it ability to age makes sense. The old LP12s that I have seen are in generally in desparate need of a good tuneup! The new LP12s are expensive, but I do not think anyone is comparing a Thorens TD150 to a current LP12/ Lingo II, Cirkus bearing, Linto phono stage etc.
The engine which was made by Allison had over 300,000 kilometers on it. The main bearings were brass, and were turned by hand on a lathe which would be very primitive by today's standards. They were within .0003 of original factory specifications. Maybe we should check your BMW?There are two hundred year old Patek Phillippe watches that keep perfect time. Will your Seiko be around in 2205?
I own a Mosin-Nagant rifle that will very consistently shoot ½" groups at 100 yards using iron sights and surplus ammunition. The rifle was made at the Sestroretsk factory in Russia in 1913. Can your new Remington do that?
We have better materials, and we can make things faster. To say that no precision exists in products of the past would be a serious mistake, a very serious mistake indeed.
Yes & a 1924 Rolls was a mass market product just like a Thorens... NOT! Sure, the items you list were made to fanatical standards. Yes it has been possible to do so for a long time. The point is, it is NOW easier to meet high standards, more quickly & cheaply as compared to 1924.In some cases this happens. In most cases, as you suggest, the lure of quicker & cheaper holds sway, so all you get is quicker & cheaper, not better. But the real comparison is between an old Land Rover with its underpowered tractor motor & one of the current models. The standard of machining on the newer engine is much higher.
I love our bimmers. We have been driving them for quite a few years, and even with all of the electrical quirks, they are so much more fun to drive than most of the competition.Dick Schneiders
I experienced the electrical quirks of various British cars when I was young...as a result my favourite joke is:Q: Why do the British drink warm beer?
A: They own Lucas refrigators!
But the electrical issues never did cease. My previous roadster was a 1970 Datsun 2000 that I bought new in Japan when I was in the US Air Force. Now that was a wonderful car. Very fast, and very reliable. Unfortunately, it got totalled by a hit and run driver when it was parked on the street in front of our house.Dick Schneiders
Sorry to hear about Datsun 2000. Regarding MGBs, they would start in the dead of a Canadian winter, but if it rained...forget it! You were walking. That never made sense to me, as it frequently rains in England.
I have reconditioned and built custom plinths for a couple TD150's and one of them, with a Grace 707 tonearm, is in the hands of asylum member tayofiji. Do a search of his posts and see what he thinks of this combination. He is an LP12 owner and I believe you will be surprised at his findings when comparing the two decks.I would recommend the TD150 for sure.
Regards,
Doug OlsenA man can never have too many turntables.
I was curious what his findings were too. He says:"I own an LP12/Ittock II and a modded Thorens TD150/Grace 707, and the modded Thorens does sound better than the Linn. Many are modding these older, well built Thorens tables. User510 and The Analogue Dept have provided many good options for updating and improving the Thorens tables. My TD150 includes a custom plinth with an IEC outlet for a separate powercord and adjustable brass cone feet. It also has a custom phenolic armboard for properly mounting the Grace arm. I am seriously considering the purchase of a Music Maker III cartridge for the Thorens as the I much prefer the sound of this table to my Linn."
And:
"Recently, I purchased a modded Thorens TD150 with all of the tweaks noted above. When comparing the Linn LK18 and an ADS XLM cartidges used with both tables, the TD150 is more musical while providing greater soundstage depth and detail. I am much more involved in the music, period. With the tweaks, the Thorens just sounds better to my ears in my listening environment. Does that mean the LP12 is bad? NO! But, when I consider my investment in the Thorens and my potential investment to upgrade the Linn to sound better, the law of diminishing returns tells me to stop investing in the Linn. It is as simple as that."
Cheers,
Bobbo :-)
I would advise that you set up the Thorens and listen to it with a variety of recordings, before tearing the stock tonearm out. You might be surprised!I have a lot of info that I collected when restoring my own TD150 MkII. Let me know if I can help.
Jim
The TD 150 is a fine deck, and yes very similar to the lp12. I currently own an LP12 and I am refurbishing a TD150. I know that a Rega arm will overload the springs on the suspension of a TD150. I have heard of people using the springs from a LP12 to overcome this.
My personal opinion of the stock rega arm is pretty low. The wiring that they use sounds so bad. I think that if you plan on using this arm you will be very dissapointed in the sound. But it sounds like you might be game for a wire replacement. It is a very easy process (well soldering the cartridge clips can be a pain!), and will make your rega sound outstanding. A mod'ed TD150 and a mod'ed RB250, IMHO, should be a sweet little setup.
Thanks for the reply.What are some recommended lower cost tonearms that better the stock Thorens arm? I've read the SME 3009...any others?
I think that dead man jim is correct in his above post. The stock arm is really pretty good. In my experience it is on par with the stock rega. The SME arms are quite nice, but good luck on finding one for a reasonable price.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
