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To All,Due to the sensitivity and delicacy of 'The Dog' thread, I want to thank (some) members for their explanations of their side of the matter - especially rslinda and Devils Ears and, of course, the one 'lone' supporter [forget his name]. All responses were read and re-read. A few good/close friends (from this board, even) of mine feel the same as you do. Also, a 'thanks' for the liberality of the moderators in letting such a thread develop. Values - even offbeat ones or off-the-wall ones - on such fundamental issues as human life and animal life are important for people to talk about, even when accidentally or incidentally brought out on a forum having nothing to do with the issues *per se*. The vinyl board (as I undestand matters) is (justly) well-known for its practice of liberality in non-vinyl issues getting posted. I hope that spirit continues . . and my part in 'The Dog' thread having not 'pushed the envelope' on this liberality of postings policy. (I would love to reciprocate and respond individually to the more substantive postings but that would be impolitic, to say the least)
Lastly, I was not 'under the influence' of any alcoholic drink during my part in the posting or immediately prior to the posting. That that assumption/conclusion was made is remarkable in and of itself.
Follow Ups:
even if you didn't mean it, certainly you come off like one.
Kuma a break, here. . .
Anyone that shows anything other then that or a lack of respect for his kinfolk should not only be banned from Vinyl Asylum but deserves 1000 nips on the heal of his tapping foot.
I like the non-flash indoor settings allowing it to be "pushed" to 800 or 1600 ASA. Nice natural light shots.Still getting used to it, though. I think Michelle is going to like it.
It's a good camera for taking shots in low light conditions and at the same time is small and compact. It does have it's own problems, however, as seemingly do all the other digital cameras.
I still prefer my Leica CM and R 6.2 film cameras as the cameras of choice though.
I got some very good handheld shots of the New York skyline from my HDTV big screen with the F10, a feat that I haven't been able to accomplish with anyother camera I have had.
Technically this is a place where people generally make posts on matters associated with musical recording and playback on vinyl. However, over time regular posters have become more than mere monikers, but have constituted in a very real sense a community of fellow travelers. Personalities, tastes, and temperments have emerged to the point that I'm sure many regulars here feel a real friendship with others, even though they have never met in person or never even talked to one another. The overwhelming response here to the loss of a close companion is a direct reflection of this sense of community and, furthermore, a reflection of the understanding that animals other than homo sapiens can plan very important parts in our lifes. I think this Board would be a much less interesting place without this sense of community and humanity. [After all, consider that there have been posts that contain nothingh more than anguish over the accidental loss of the tip off a stylus, which were followed by condolences. ]
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Additionally, very well-composed sentiment.
I was the one 'lone' supporter and you forgot my name! :(I just went to HR and asked if there there is a corporate policy about taking time off off that due to the death of a pet dog. A similar benefit exists in case of the death of a family member. Wwhen my mother died a couple of years ago, I was able to take three paid days off. Anyway, they gave me a strange look. So heartless, just like you and me. That is what I like about the VA - such warm, gentle, kind people here, plenty of shoulders to cry on.
the day after posting my condolences-are-for-humans post. It was called "66 Hip Dog Supplies". The door handle was in the shape of a dog - such cutsieness. The V.A. would have loved it. I asked them (in Chinese) why "66" was part of the shop's name. Apparently, 'walk your dog' sounds similar to the number '66' in Chinese ["leo-she leo" is the sound of the number]. Of course, I walked in with pride into that shop; hey, I had P.A.V.A. (Private Authority of the Vinyl Asylum).Arlekino, here's to P.A.V.A., man! Paws Rule!
But no, you have to come back and be a double dickhead and start it all up again. Sheesh.
Henry
Please explain to this dumb human...but then, I have shown MY humanity!
Sleaze the day!
Henry
Man's best friend. And NOT the usual requiem for a girlie-man's dead kitty cat.Greetings from sunny Cal-eee-fornia,
Arnold
With discretion being the better part of valor, it isn't hard to imagine why you felt the need to speak as you have.
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Henry
Necessity is a mother...and what necessity is that, me wonders...
From the wording of your posts, you demonstrate a good command of the English language and an intellect that is, at least, above average.From the semantic content, however, you also demonstrate a lack of empathy for the pain of others and a lack of understanding of "when to keep quiet".
I have tried to "play the ball and not the man" on the issues, but your apparent unwillingness to concede that other people have a right to express their "feelings" without someone criticising their semantics, is what puzzles me...
In addition, when the "error of your grasp of the situation" was pointed out to you, there was no acknowledgement of this. (Here I am referring to "condolences" being targetted at the sufferer and not the "departed" - where the "sufferer" was human and the "departed" was not.)
A very wise mentor - many years back - made this observation to me after I had made an idiot of myself (which I do with monotonous regularity...):
"Never try to defend the indefensible!"
It has turned out to be an excellent maxim... You may want to try it!
Your "surprise"/"concern" that emotional responses called into question your level of sobriety is another aspect... Humans react to situations at two different levels, depending on their "emotional state" at the time:
1. On a "rational" level when emotions are under control
2. On an "emotional" level when emotions are not under controlYour post that triggered this furore affected different people in different ways - most were mightily pissed-off and they reacted - understandably - from a pure emotional perspective.
I am forced to conclude that you do not consider the suffering of others to be a valid "guideline" as to how to respond (if at all), and this, if not addressed, will result in your missing out a lot of what life has to offer.
...but your natural discursiveness is hard to let alone. Your conclusion is totally false. If I were as you described (in last paragraph), I wouldn't bother to follow-up at all. I'd just laugh off the opposition I've received, wouldn't I? I wanted to present a contrast between a human's death and an animal's. I don't think anyone puts them in the same class. I'm not sure though when I hear some pet owners/animal rights activists. That's all. The "semantic" point was my way to bring about a little thought on this contrast. I'm afraid to elaborate too fully for fear of turning THIS posting into a re-run of the earlier one (which would only hasten the deletion of the thread, the patience of the moderators and maybe a deletion of any future postings of mine).Much more could be said, trust me. One example: I recall a year or so ago, that a Muzikmike lost an in-law (can't recall if mother-in-law or father-in-law). At the time, I didn't know who Muzikmike was or his regularity on the Asylum. He received perhaps a dozen posts expressing well-meant condolences. Fine. This was on the 'Vinyl' board, as I recall. Fine. A short time earlier, another poster had lost a dog (i.e., the dog died). He received perhaps TEN TIMES the number of condolence postings. This was on the 'General' board. Now, I can see that any 'General' board posting (of any nature) is going to receive a higher readership than any other board. However, when I look at the number of condolence postings to Mint Vinyl [?] and his loss of his pet on the 'Vinyl' board, I can see that the readership is not so different in quantity. Also, I now see that Muzikmike seems to be almost a 'legend' on the Asylum (long-timer, well liked and respected). I would guess his 'stature' to be greatly larger than the other poster [name forgotten] who posted his dog's loss on the 'General' board. I find this totally unacceptable (and let's forget the jokes about in-laws and relatives).
And so, you felt it is your duty to correct or highlight this disparity within the immediate thread.As you see, your timing and tenor struck a nerve with more than just the " pet owners/animal rights activists ".
And yet, your post caused discord with more than the "animal rights" fanatics. How is that explained?
Perhaps, it is because your response was in bad taste.
I wanted to present a contrast between a human's death and an animal's. I don't think anyone puts them in the same class.
I don't the original poster or anyone else was attempting to make that statement.
For reference, my mother passed away last December after a 5 year battle with cancer. When I returned to The Asylum(Outside) after three weeks or a month, I made a post about how that felt. As can be expected, I got comforting words from a number of the locals - even ones who I regularly disagree with. Regardless of the number of the posts, the sentiment and effort by others felt good.
Seeing someone else's post about the loss of their pet doesn't in any way awaken feelings of comparison or the need to count responses even if they were to receive 100 times the posts. In fact, I would be heartened to see people react in mass someone's loss, any loss that emotionally affects them.
though I have to disagree. What do you say to someone who CHOOSES to not know his neighbor and prefer to communicate with his/her pet? I'm not making the contrast, here: such a pet-owner is making the choice.I've enjoyed your postings on 'Outside' and I'm sorry for the loss of your mother. Few relationships for most folks can take the place of the mother/child one.
What do you say to someone who CHOOSES to not know his neighbor and prefer to communicate with his/her pet?"How's your pet?"
I find getting along with people is simply a matter of finding common ground or interests. Pet lovers like talking about their pets. Audiophools babble on about cables and components. Sports fans talk about their teams. It's really no different.
And I know the type of pet fanatic you are talking about, I deal them everyday at the dog park. They're the ones whose lives revolve around and identities are defined by their pets. Many do take it to anti-social levels.
But, human nature and individuality makes different people interact and socialize(or not) in different ways. Simply because you and I enjoy or want to know our neighbors doesn't mean everyone else has to or even should.
And there is no guarantee (in fact, I'd bet) that if these people didn't get into pets they still would not socialize with others. They just don't feel comfortable or enjoy it.
So, obsessing about their dog, cat, or bird gives them some sense of interaction and belonging. Good for them, everyone deserves some form of happiness as long as it doesn't hurt others
I've enjoyed your postings on 'Outside' and I'm sorry for the loss of your mother. Few relationships for most folks can take the place of the mother/child one.
Thansk for the kind words, it is a very strange thing to go through. My dad died of a heart attack at the age of 59 (I was 19) and now my Mom passing at 65 seems unfair at times. But, in reality, I had a lot of great years with them both and only good memories which is a lot more than others ever have the chance for, so I am grateful for what I got.
> That that assumption/conclusion was made is remarkable in and of itself. <You would have been better off to let that assumption stand. By admitting you were stone sober when you made such an insensitive remark, we now know you for who you really are. But maybe that was your intent all along. If so, good for you. Better yet, good for us.
Oz
Respect is something you obviously lack, and you it showed then, as it shows now. I made no comment regarding your remarks at the time, although I felt they were totally uncalled for. Whether you believe someone should grieve when a pet dies is neither here, nor there. You should have kept the opinion to yourself because that was certainly not the time to express it. I feel you take a particular delight in the misery of others, or you would not have come back to start a follow up thread. I, for one, am offended at your remarks, and if you were here you would know exactly how offended I am. You opinion may be based on the culture of the country that you live in, I don't know, but you should stop to consider the culture of others, if that is the case. In any event, assuming you aren't a complete idiot, you should have been able to appreciate that MintVinyl was distressed that his pet had died. Also, you should have been able to appreciate that many others were in sympathy. You obviously took none of that in to consideration. There is no excuse for being repeatedly inconsiderate, regardless of how you attempt to reconcile the fact.
Just kidding. I'm on my 3rd G&T. %–0
NT
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