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Denon DL-103 EM Elliptical Stylus Tracking Force?

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spindrifter

(P)

Hi inmates
I'm about to assemble my latest TT and MC cartridge combo and have decided upon a Roksan Radius 5/Nima and Denon DL-103EM.
Anybody here owned/played with the EM derivative of the DL-103?
I am informed by the local distributor the stylus is definitely elliptical, but they have no idea of recommended tracking force other than what the product manual states. Accompanying product notes state 2.5g plus/minus .3g rec tracking force which appears applicable only to the age-old standard conical stylus model, not the elliptical.
Any thoughts? TIA.
spindrifter

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My guess is that the DL-103EM is the same as a garden... - EdAInWestOC 09:04:30 08/02/05 (0)
variety DL-103. My guess is based on Googling around and finding the following site Denon EM cartridges . Included on that page are a DL-110EM, DL-160EM, DL-103EM and a DL-304EM. If my guess is correct the EM probably stands for a version of those cartridges with different language instructions or whatever.
Ed

We don't shush around here! (Siegfried)
My system
Re: Denon DL-103 EM Elliptical Stylus Tracking Force? - Fred J 06:12:54 08/02/05 (10)
It would seem that youl DL103EM is afterall just another varient of the basic DL103, so the compliance etc. should be pretty much equivalent ? same suspension cantilever coils etc, so I don't see how you could go too far wrong using the standard spec'd perimeters perhaps you can at some point
get by with a slighly lower VTF as a result of the elliptical stylus.
Wouldn't your DL 103, essentially be a DL 103D ?
Regards FredJ
- The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus - garth 07:03:30 08/02/05 (9)
  I don't have the specs in front of me but I believe the tracking force is slightly less, about 2.2 or 2.0. i believe in theory if all else is the same, and the 103s are great research animals, an elliptical would have a lower tracing for ce than a conical and a fine line or micro ridge type slightly less again. I use the same tracking force as the conical with a Shibata equipped 103. I tried lower but seemed better at 2.5.
  - Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus - vinyl-lebt 07:34:25 08/02/05 (8)
    According to a 1980s german brochure the S has an elliptical stylus, compliance 8, recommended tracking force 1.8 +/- 0.3 grams.
    Internal impedance is identical to the standard DL 103: 40 ohms.
    The D has a slightly different elliptical shape, compliance 12, recommended tracking force 1.5 +/- 0.3 grams, 33 ohms impedance.
    Cheers, Holger
    - I read somewhere that the "S" was intended for... - EdAInWestOC 09:20:42 08/02/05 (0)
      quad use. It might have been here, but it kind of makes sense. The "S" was released in 1974 and its stated freq response of 20-60kHz would plant it square in the middle of quad territory.
      At least the facts fit the theory.
      Ed
      
      We don't shush around here! (Siegfried)
      My system
    - Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus - garth 07:50:36 08/02/05 (6)
      Hi Holger, yes now I recall the S had a slightly greater compliance.
      Do you think the lower tracking is due to a combination of stylus and compliance vs. the 103 or just one or the other?
      Cheers!
      - Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus - bkearns 02:12:01 08/03/05 (5)
        
        In Reply to: Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus posted by garth on August 2, 2005 at 07:50:36:
        
        Hi Garth,
        Actually it was the other way around, the DL-103D had a higher compliance than the DL-103S.
        I've never owned the DL-103D, but I have the DL-103S, and based on the specs, I'd say that the DL-103D was more like the modern DL-3XX series, then the DL-103 series.
        The DL-103S was released 3 years before the DL-103D; the DL-103S has similar electrical specs as the DL-103, the main difference being the slightly lower tracking force, and the slightly higher compliance. I have been informed by a Japanese audiophile, that the DL-103S has a Shibata stylus (even though the datasheet just says special elliptical) and that this cartridge was designed for reproduction of quadraphonic discs. The DL-103S was replaced by the DL-103M in 1983, which again is more like the modern DL-3XX series: coil impedance of 33 Ohms, low tracking force, high compliance. The DL-103M is also lighter than the conventional DL-103, and has an alloy body. For some reason it has a very low output (0.12mV)
        I have a DL-103M too, but I couldn't critically evaluate it, because the output was too low for my phono stage.
        Best regards,
        BK
        
        Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus - orthophonic 09:42:05 08/03/05 (4)
        
        In Reply to: Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus posted by bkearns on August 3, 2005 at 02:12:01:
        
        You are correct that the S has a shibata stylus. I always preferred
        the S over the D back then. The S had greater treble detail.
        
        Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus - garth 11:49:04 08/03/05 (3)
        
        In Reply to: Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus posted by orthophonic on August 3, 2005 at 09:42:05:
        
        It may be a Shibata but the data sheet says special elliptical as Brian says above.
        And to think I sent it out and had a Shibata installed on it! I got it super cheap as an NOS and didn't even play it before the operation.
        Cheers!
        
        Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus - bkearns 02:00:57 08/04/05 (2)
        
        In Reply to: Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus posted by garth on August 3, 2005 at 11:49:04:
        
        Hi Garth,
        I had the stylii on both of my DL-103S changed to an extended profile line contact stylus by the Expert Stylus company.
        I was aware, when I made that decision, that I was reducing the "cult status" value of the cartridges by doing so. However, this seemed like the most practical approach.
        By many accounts, the Shibata was a very early design for reducing the contact dimension of the stylus in a direction tangential to the groove, but has been superseded by more modern designs.
        What in particular do you think is so special about the Shibata stylus?
        Also, I'd be interested to know who has started making the Shibata stylus again.
        Best regards,
        BK
        
        Shibata - garth 07:09:39 08/04/05 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: The "S" is a 103 with an elliptical stylus posted by bkearns on August 4, 2005 at 02:00:57:
        
        Hi BK,
        I don't have a particular love affair with the Shibata it's just that the guy I use for this offers it and an elliptical. He sources them from a company in Switzerland, just like about everyone else. Benz, VDh,
        Allerts and probably others get their stylus/cantilevers from the same source. Actually it is not a case of "again" making the Shibata but rather still making it.
        Yes, it is the granddaddy of line contact styli.
        Cheers!
        
        So do you have a link or contact details? - bkearns 06:07:34 08/05/05 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Shibata posted by garth on August 4, 2005 at 07:09:39:
        
        So do you have a link or contact details for the guy who offers the Shibata stylus?
        Best regards,
        BK
Re: Denon DL-103 EM Elliptical Stylus Tracking Force? - Pauly 04:43:00 08/02/05 (0)
I never heard of the 'EM' but have a look at link
- http://www.audioinvest.no/denon/index9.htm (Open in New Window)
Re: Denon DL-103 EM Elliptical Stylus Tracking Force? - HenryH 03:41:52 08/02/05 (3)
I see no DL-103EM listed, but there is a DL-103M with an eliptical stylus in Ed's Cartridge Database. Link below. Save the link. It's a handy reference I use all the time.

Henry
Necessity is a mother . . .
- Ed's Cartridge Database (Open in New Window)
- Thanks To All - BTW Garth, are you still on the same email?!!! - spindrifter 20:02:23 08/02/05 (2)
  Thanks to all.
  Will experiment and report back in due course....
  BTW, Garth, are you still on the same email? I've tried a couple of times lately and emails have bounced. "Bist auf Sommer Urlaub, oder...?" Aufwiederhoren!
  spindrifter
  - Which one is that? - garth 11:50:43 08/03/05 (1)
    I am no longer on AOL.
    - Re: Which one is that? - spindrifter 15:10:38 08/03/05 (0)
      Hi Garth
      Thought that might be the case.
      Will attempt via your Eclectic Audio website, if that is set up to facilitate contact. Thanks.
      spindrifter

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