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128.103.14.11
In Reply to: vinyl outselling hi-res digital?!?! posted by troporobo on August 1, 2005 at 19:04:48:
I find the statement a bit misleading, because in fact "hi-res" digital formats have always been the last format by sales. They haven't reached the sales volume of vinyl in 2004 just as they never had before.
The "event" of 2004 is rather the death of the cassette, which finally sold less than vinyl (but still more than LPs, half of the sales of vinyl being singles).
Nonetheless, sales of vinyl have been in steady decline (and not a slow one at that).
But frankly, the whole discussion is marginal. The only real business issue is CD vs. file downloads, possibly with music videos being an interesting side-show riding on the coat-tails of the huge success of DVD-video. Come on: vinyl, cassette, SACD and DVD-A together constitute 0.7% of the market, less than $100 million ...Sales for 2004 (in millions)
CD: .................................... 11,461.4
Music video (mostly DVD): ..... 607.2
vinyl: ......................................... 39.0
cassette: .................................... 23.6
SACD + DVD-A: ..................... 23.0Five-year trend (compared to 1999)
CD: ...................................... -12.1%
Music video (mostly DVD): .. +61.2%
vinyl: ..................................... -34.7%
cassette: ................................ -97.9%
SACD + DVD-A: .................. N/A
Follow Ups:
Looking at the RIAA 2004 yearend stats table, the following seems to be true:
-All formats have experienced decline in the last 5-6 years except for music videos. (CDs sales did tick up a couple of % last year).-Decline has been greater in the last couple of years for SACD & DVD-A formats than for LPs.
-LP sales $ did exceed SACD & DVD/A sales $ last year.
-Rate of decline for units shipped seems to have slowed in the last couple of years for LPs.
-Percentage of change in units shipped from 2003-2004:
LP <11.9%>
DVD/A <20.6%>
SACD <39.6%> !!!RIAA suggests that illegal downloads, alternative access (internet radio, etc.), and mp3s generally account for format declines (as well as the crap that is offered by the music industry today, my personal theory).
I remain optimistic about the vinyl, but I'd be a bit anxious if I were loading up on the current hi-rez digital audio formats.
Regards,
Jim
I find you statement a bit misleading because placing those other formats in the same list as Vinyl makes it appear as if the other formats are worthy of mention?Here are the fact's :
Vinyl : 23,6 million unitsThat's all folks...the other formats don't count for people who appreciate music. They are only of interest to accountants and marketing departments.
Enjoy the music.
.
mt
Just ministering to the heathens?
Because I have a couple of thousand LPs already! Old story: The problem is that there are no new classical releases on LP, only reissues.
nt
I like vinyl too, but let's not be fundamentalists!
Even assuming that every LP sounds better than every CD (which I doubt, but my experience is very limited), so what?Then the argument should be that all recorded music does not count for people who appreciate music. We should only be playing musical instruments and going to concerts because the real thing beats the best recording, indeed is the unattainable standard for the best recording. Are recordings for accountants and marketing departments?
I have plenty of CD's...( but SACD 's etc. I always viewed as a transient format... )Enjoy the music, wether it be CD, Vinyl or mp3.
To infinity and beyond!!!
Yeah, I never know just how far the vinyl commitment of Inmates can go ... I'm glad that, despite the name, we're sane after all!
I am always swayed by a good argument (or good sounding anything really).. "just because I am crazy does not mean I'm nuts!"
I am always swayed by a good argument (or good sounding anything really).. "just because I am crazy does not mean I'm nuts!"
The one thing that surprises me in those numbers is the decline in new vinyl sales compared to 1999. It seems to contradict my (admittedly anecdotal) perception of more new vinyl available and more people browsing it when I go to my favorite new vinyl store than there were 6 years ago (not to mention the proliferation of new turntables and vinyl accessories and pro-vinyl chatter in audiophile circles).I wonder if maybe that number really reflects an increase in DJ's using CD's and downloads. The DJ market is what kept the vinyl-pressing plants in operation during the lean years of the 90's, but now there are digital "turntables", etc. available. It would be interesting to see if the percentage decline still held up if you could separate sales of music lover/audiophile vinyl from DJ/dance vinyl.
i think people get into vinyl and buy new assuming its better, then find cheap used, and that the original pressings often sound better as i have and give up slowly on the new, also the new LP catalogs are somewhat limiting but used is vertually endless with half a century of vinyl! plus buy a RCM and you dont worry about diry LPs like you used to as you know that 95% can be cleaned up and the 5% you just toss with no big overall loss.
And if these numbers are compiled the same way chart sales are, mail order only and boutique stores wouldn't be counted.
Good point, I think the RIAA release says these are shipment/sales of US recordings.
But mail-order and boutique stores should count: anything that leaves the factory.
The large percentage of used vinyl sales that are not included. It is one format where I am willing to wager that the used market greatly outsells the new market.
just like in the good ol' days of regular, street corner record shop.
I understand that on a large scale, this is probably just still a niche, but it's important to note that the numbers don't account for these.
Admittedly I'm not a businessman myself, so I might be missing something about their business model, but I don't see how a thriving used market should do anything to promote continued production of new vinyl.
If anything, I could see how it might depress it.So I suppose it depends on what we mean by "continued existence of vinvyl". Production of new LPs is one thing, and it has been declining since 1999 (we're back to the 1994 level, though, so it could be merely cyclical). Probably it's also driven by DJs, though I cannot say because those numbers are not available for free, if in any way.
The survival of already existing LPs is a different issue, and I don't think it's being called into question.
In fact, Muzikmike is buying it all, and I'm sure he treats it very well in his Fort-Knox-like vault ...
.
. . . vinyl is below rounding error! And declining faster than the Army's recruiting numbers. Maybe we should start promoting the vinyl community as small, but perfectly formed
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