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In Reply to: Serious listening session to Marantz 2330B. posted by HamBone77 on April 26, 2007 at 05:52:53:
You may have to re-do the De-oxit on the volume control.As to the phono, the noise you're hearing is normal for an open circuit, and 12 o'clock on the volume control with the 2330 is really a lot of output. Most amps reach full output at 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock with inputs of normal level. The rest of the rotation is there for lower than normal inputs.
As to interconnects: For phono, you want to total capacitance of the tone arm wiring, the interconnects between the TT and amp, and the amplifier input capacitance to match your cartridge. AT's typically want less capacitance (around 250 pF) than the older Shure and Pickering models (450 pF) . There is typically a manufacturer's recommended total. So with the AT, use the shortest possible IC's and use ones that have low capacitance. Radio Shack Gold ($10.95) are fairly low. The Dual CS5000 arm wiring will be moderately low, and the Marantz will be ???. Sometimes you get lucky and the manufacturer specifies the input capacitance on their phono section. Measurement is always the best idea, but a clue to cable capacitance is the cable diameter. Bigger usually gives lower capacitance. Those skinny "el cheapo" IC's that get included with a lot of gear have really high capacitance. I have 0ne 3' pair that measures 330 pF, while a 3' long Radio Shack Gold is only 70 pF.
The optimum cartidge loading gives the flattest response. Too much rolls off the top end and causes a rise in the upper midrange, too little and a sag develops in the upper mids and a peak develops in the upper treble. If the total capacitance of the arm wiring, reasonable interconnects and amp input add up to too much for the AT, there is really nothing you can do about it and you may have to find a cartridge that has a higher capacitance requirement.
The pre out/main in jumpers need to be short. Sometimes, using interconnects instead of the original jumpers can raise the noise level as the IC's carry a ground between the pre out and main in and the amp may be engineered to not have the preamp and main amp grounds connected at that point. Personally, I have never found a case where the original jumpers sounded worse than IC's.
Trust me, your phono cart and Advents are broken in by now. At this point it's more a case of you "getting used to" the new sound.
Once you get the little bugs worked out it ought to be a really nice system.
Follow Ups:
Welcome to the magic world of Marantz.Jerry has given you some excellent advice on achieving the optimum capacitance balance between your cartridge/tonearm and your 2330B phono input. You may not need to re-do the de-oxit. Turning the pot back and forth a few times may dislodge whatever is causing the static.
The following is a link to a tutorial for setting up your turntable, tonearm and cartridge. There is also some further info on selecting the correct cartridge for your system. You probably know some, or all, of this already.
Barney
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I figured some tracing and tweeking in the phono loop was in order. Its good to know that the noise I'm hearing should be expected. It's not really an issue when listening as I don't normally push the volume that hard. Which even makes that little blip at the end of the volume range a non-issue. I will deox again though, I know its there so it bugs me.The education on the wiring was very helpful. Some of its beyond me. Think liberal arts campus versus engineering campus. But, I do get the points about matching wiring, cables, interconnects throughout the system.
One thing that was a big aha with the Marantz was improvements in the phone sections. Much better. It is really pointing out flaws in some bad vinyl I have and groove damaged that went unnoticed before is quite clear. Helps me sort the good vinyl from the bad. But if the vinyl is good and clean......ah....very very nice. Once I get the bugs worked out of the wiring chain I think dialing in the carts algnment again is going to be rewarding.
I think I must have passed some kind of milestone with my Advents. I have a line on a pair of nice clean New Advents, and I'm probably going to pass on them in favor of what I already have. This after looking for a nice pair for a coup;e of years.
One of the nice things is that I am really pleased with the sound and performance with the Advents I have. And, really didn't have to do much to get them there. It was really nice replacing those caps in the crossover. Now, looking inside the Marantz is a bit of a different story. Just a bit more intimidating wiring wise!I'm content for now, but will be on the look out for some nice walnut cabinets with components that can be brought to life. Then I will be searching your post and doing the total upgrade. Braces, terminal post, internal wiring, etc.... For me, its always good to have something to look forward to with a goal in mind.
At some point if I can score a spare tonearm for the dual may try a rewiring on the arm. That's the one complaint of the Dual is that the tonearm is what it is.
I've owned quite a few Dual's over the years, and I found the tonearm to be pretty good, clip in headshell and all. It gets a lot of flack, but mostly from folks who don't understand the design. The aluminum/plastic construction is really pretty well damped because of internal friction between the various parts that are clamped, not bonded, together; so resonances in the arm don't editorialize as some "better" arms do. Also, the spring system for arm weighting works well and is not sensitive to attitude (although I always checked mine with a Shure gauge). Dual used to demo that by having their TT at really extreme angles, or even upside down, playing happily.
The tracking on my Dual is superior. I like the idea of checking the tracking weight. Think I'll have to invest in a scale. I just wish the wiring were more accessible so that a rewire would not be such a hassle. But, in the long run I'm not really sure if a rewire would resulted in a measurable gain. This may be an area where the adage "If its not broke don't fix it" applies.
If you're talking about rewiring the tone arm, don't!!! A) it's not easy and you risk trahing the TT; and B) it won't gain you anything audible. I'm obviously not into exotic wires and cables, and I believe that this is one area where measurements do tell the story.IMHO it's very much a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
I take that as sage advice. I was more serious about thinking about taking that on before I bought my current cartridge. I was having connection, grounding and loosing channel problems. Mounted new cartridge and that's all gone completely. Certainly points to a faulty or failing cartridge.
Decca arms had plastic in them too! I agree that it is not a sing of low quality. Although I have gone on to lofter tables, I still like the Duals and recomend them to friends. Duals are music lovers tables.
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