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Wharfedale truly seems to be the sleeper name in vintage speakers. Lots of info and interest in many other companies, but relatively little on this classic British brand. Why is that?Their W series from the 60s seem to possess all the right characteristics to warrant a strong following, from the drivers to the cabinetry and grills (yes looks are important) and of course the sound. Not the big driving sound of your Altecs or JBLs or Klipsches, perhaps more in line with the muted East Coast sound (Britain is WAY east).
Im familiar with the W60, W70 and W90 models, less frequently seen are the W25, W35, W40 and W50 (are there others?). Ive yet to find a decent resource outlining the models, years, details etc. as many of the other more familiar speaker names generate.
Just curious...
Follow Ups:
I lucked out (IMHO) and bought a pair of W70D's from the original owner several months ago for $10. She was using them in her bedroom. I have heard that they do really well tubes. But, since I have yet to get to my tubes I tried several other combinations and surprisingly, I really like them mated to a Pioneer SX-3800 and a Miracord 40A TT. Have played tunes from The Who and Alan Parsons to Simon and Garfunkel and the Wharfedales lacked nothing. Especially with vocals. Very smooth and refined, and easily driven. Pushed them a little bit but wary not to destroy them. Oh yeah, her son remembered a tube amp—it was tossed years ago, bummer.
I have W90's (at my mother's place) on a Technics reciever and W60's on a Laffayette tube receiver. The tubes definatly sounds better. I suspect that the Wrrfdales were designed for an amp with a high ouput impedance/low damping factor. I'd like to get the W90's on tubes but I'm not sure that my 80 year old mother would want to mess with tubes.Dave
Yes, the drivers were designed around tubes; at the time there was n alternative. I've tried them on several SS amps and receivers and the result is very similar to the Dyna SCA35 and Sherwood S5000II and the McIntosh MC2105 The 2105 has a low dampening factor and is voiced very close to the Mc tube amps that preceded it. Also, with the Sony STR 6060FW and 6045 the result is similar though a bit more color on the upper end and a slight loss of detail in the bass. On a fisher 600T and the amp based section from it, the TX300 there is a harsher result throoughout the range but better than with a H-K 630, Sherwood 7650 or JVC JR-S301. The Yamaha CA610II does nicely and reminds me more of the Marantz 19 on them than the others but it exhibits the veiling I've found the Yamaha seems to have.
You got some very interesting results! I would have expected the MC2105 to give the results you got. The W90's didn't sound bad on the Technics, they were just a bit over-damped. The high frequncey rolloff may have been a plus in this case. You have nice gear!
I've been fortunate over the decades to have either owned or had access to much equipment but, learned that synergy is really where it is at. A $500 (new) system that has synergy can sound better than a $100,000 system without.
Having sold audo for years, I can't agree with you more on synergy. I have fould some strange combinations though that worked, but I could not figure out how it worked. One I recall was the Nakamichi Satis Amp and Acoustat speakers. The Nak did not sound that special on most speakers we had, and was quit expensive but on 2+2's it sang. The Veludine UDL-15 didn't hurt on the bottom end, also! I used to demo it with the Telarc Alexander Nevski CD. It was quite impressive!Dave
- http://www.telarc.com/Classical/title.asp?sku=CD-80143&mscssid=DUKTVRVX3SCS9KVJ1069S65RD3LC63D2 (Open in New Window)
Since I keep myself on a budget I have only a couple tube units: Sherwood S-5000II, Harmon Kardon A-700 and Sansui 1000A plus some pre's and tuners. Just need to find the time and space to hook them up. My Wharfedales do well with the Pioneer though I did need to tame the mids and highs so I'm not sure of the suggestion of a super tweeter. As such I'm in no big huurry to do a changeout.
In the past I have found the Pioneer receivers to have an edge in the registers you mention. On some speakers it is either not noticable or helps in delivering some of the punch persons want. I would imagine on the Wharfedales that have a more delecate presentation than say a KLH, Advent, etc. that slight edge would be noticed and could be distracting. I've tried the JVC JR-S301 and Sherwood 7650 on my W70s and the JVC yielded earbleed while the Sherwood while decent exhibited a similar edge you mention.
Actually, those are good tube units. Think of it this way, tub amps will generally have a high source impedance, along with a low damping factor. Speakers designed for these characteristics will have over damped base, that is, they will have amore rolled off base when hooked to a transistor amp with a higher damping factor. By attenuating the mids and highs, you are, in effect, tuning up the base and compensating for the higher damping factor of the transistor amp. I recommend a super tweeter because those big cone tweeters don't have much high frequency response, so rather than turning up the treble, I am recommending extending the treble.
I did not take the moniker "briggs" casually. I read his "Loudspeakers", "High Fidelity" and "More About Loudspeakers" back in the fifties with a sense of reverence, and still keep an old Super 12/FS/AL with a pencilled "GWB" on the chassis (indicating he personally had tested it).
Check on eBay for the book by Biggs on his designs. Wharfedale like many U.K. companies did not have the scale of production to saturate the US market. Hence there are relatively few items from companies Quad, Leak, Naim, etc. I seem to remember tha tthe company had a major fire in late '70s and much from earlier years was destroyed and hence drivers, literature, repairs, etc. are not available.As for sound, I am on my 2nd pair in over a span of some 40 years with the 1st being a then almost new set of W70Ds and now an earleir set of W70s. Used with equipment suitably mated for them and in environments and with music they were designed with they are excellent. The sound is very well balanced, open and well artculated at lower levels. Not designed as high SPL speakers and definitely NOT for high powered amps unless you like frying things but with something in the 5 - 30 watt range that is high quality and on most music but rock and at levels that I term polite apartment house dwellers who are considerate of neighbors they can be wonderful. Dumping some aweful high powered reciever from acroos the other pond and trying to get into Klipsch SPL territory will not do anything for them. Some of the best sound of any system I've heard came form a set of W70Ds mated to a Marantz 19 and my W70s mated to a Dyna SCA35.
High end is not out to light speed as so many of the earbleeding digital speakers of today are but on the other side they come loser to reproducing the sound from a classical acoustic performance than the digital dribbles.
Biggs BTW was internationally recognized as 1 of the few experts in speaker design and development and ranks up with the best from any country.
Klispch and JBL L-100 lovers will not like them; persons who think 1 note bass thumpers are where it is at but music lovers who attend live acoustic performances will most likely be those who chase them.
"High end is not out to light speed as so many of the earbleeding digital speakers of today are but on the other side they come (c)loser to reproducing the sound from a classical acoustic performance than the digital dribbles."What the heck does that mean?
And how does a speaker set know what sort of music it is reproducing?They either can reproduce a signal or they can't. To create a bunch of caveats so that lesser speakers can still be considered great seems like a waste of time to me.
It's not a matter of a lesser speaker, but more of a design intent.When you get more experience with them or this hobby, you should understand.
I made a very good living in that business for over a decade so I've heard just about everything including more nonsensical double talk than you'd ever imagine.
And what art of the business are or were you in? I'd rather respond knowing it than respond either making assumptions and statements not applicable to you.
And I know that they did what they were designed for quite well.
... They sound excellent with small - mid watt tube amps, which is what they were designed for in the late 50's, early '60s. People mate them to larger solid state amps and wonder why they don't sound good.Also, my observation is many people these days have only heard a dusty pair that's been sitting in an attic for several decades (that's how mine were when I first acquired them and I thought, 'wooly and muffled'). That was until I replaced the old dried out caps and cleaned the L-pads.
I suspect lots of people these days compare the sound of the Wharfies to 'modern' speakers with their zingy and tinkly high-ends. Lots of detail and resolution but not very natural sounding. My W60e's matched with a small (~7 - 20) tube amp is one of the most natural sounding presentations I've heard. I can listen to them forever without fatique.
As with all lines of audio, some Wharfies are better then others. And synergy with the rest of the gear, the room and even the music is everything.
I doubt I'll ever sell my W60e's (as long as I have small tube amps) and I've run everything from west coast '70's vintage to electrostatics and much in between.
Hi Bystander,I have a pair of W90's set up at my mother's house. The multiple, horizontally aligned drivers do not make for pinpoint stereo imaging, they don't handle much power and the highs are a bit rolled off, but that is about all I can criticize. On the plus side, the have no cabinet coloration that I can hear, they are very efficient and the drivers seem to be very low distortion within their power range. They are so efficient that the lack of power handling is not an issue. I will bet a 300B Set, SCA-35 or ST-35 could drive the to good volume levels. Put a stethoscope on normal speakers and you will hear a dull drone of the music playing. Put a stethoscope on a W90 and you hear nothing!
If I were to maximize a W90, I would add a super tweeter like the inexpensive Fostex and run it on tubes. You would be able to shake the walls with a nice EL34 amp like a Dynaco Stereo 70. An EL84 amp would be very sweet! It may not do the audiophile imaging tricks, but it will sound like music.
I own a pair of W60Ds I bought about 30 years ago. From a design standpoint it would seem they had a lot of good features, Cast aluminium baskets with big motors on the woofers, acoustically isolated mid range, decent crossovers and sand filled backs but somehow they miss the mark. Overall their performance is lackluster at best.
Try a tube amp, or put a 0.5 to 1 ohm resistor in series and they will open up. You are using a solid state amp, aren't you?
I tried them with Marantz 8B and a pair of 9s, A pair of Eico HF-22s, Dynaco MKIVs, MKIIIs, Mac MC30s, MC275, Hadley 601, Harvard H-3a and probably a few others I can't remember. They were just always so so. To put it in technical terms, they never "WOWED" me.
You certainly gave them every chance, I'll say that. All my experience (95%, anyway) was with the separate drivers not the boxed systems. I have to admit, the boxed wharedales didn't float my boat either.
I'm a planar guy now but after the Warfedales I bought a pair of Rectilinear IIIas and thought they blew the Warfedales away.
Even though I like them, I'll admit that they don't have the WOW factor. Maybe a super tweeter would help.
I have yet to hear a pair that sounded good so that might be one reason. I never understood how they stayed in business.
You might ask how Bozak stayed in business. Their sound had a lot of similarities.
Another good point because I always wondered that myself.
Still waiting for your background bio as to your decade plus in the industry. If not we may assume it is that of selling speakes at Circuit City and I'm sure you'd not like that reputation (unless true). I'd like to respond above but prefer doing it knwing your background so no misconceptions are made in the response.
I really don't care what anyone thinks my background is unless they are paying me to take advantage of it so make up something juicy if it makes you feel better. I always base my opinions here on what I see as fact, not who I like or what my friends like so the opinion of someone on an internet board is really irrelevant to me.
I bought a pair of pristine W-90'sBeautiful cabnet's
Even a pair of CS-88's blew them out of the water
To no avail I first drove them with a Fisher 500C, then a Scott 222C, then a Fisher 400C, followed with a Scott LC-21/Scott LK-150 running KT-88's.
SOLD E'M, the W-90's that is.
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