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In Reply to: Re: accurate with regard to? posted by Bold Eagle on February 23, 2007 at 20:11:36:
I still have to get to the core of this issue. Your friend's comment is interesting but at the same time vague.If you start perusing this topic, you start finding even more questions than answers. Phono cutting technology is capable of a 7hz-25hz range...so I cannot see what you are basing your comment about "limiting of the highs", and since there are phono cartridges on the market capable of sub 20hz reproduction- the playback comment also doesn't make much sense.
Now...on the part of the mastering engineer sometimes there will be cut on high frequencies to cut down on sibilince...but this is done on something specific such as a cymbal crash(s)...it is not a high filter put on the entire record side to counteract 12 seconds out of 20 minutes. Also...cutting a record is a highly skilled activity and there was a lot of mediocre lp mastering engineers over the years...so I can understand where someone might believe that all CD's are more "accurate" than LP's.
From a practical standpoint CD's make much more sense than LP's. For the average person the fidelity is adequete (and they are quite good- I prefer LP's by a longshot- but I do not take them as gospel like some LP people do), there is no playback wear (ie-stylus having to be changed) easy to store, etc. From a manufacturing standpoint they also make more sense, as they are cheaper to make, and cost less to ship and store.
But practical does not always mean the "best". All of my practical comments can be applied to MP3's vs CD's.
LP playback takes a lot of commitment from the user...and I understand that most people don't have the time, space, or money to listen to LP's.
But on the other hand I take offense at people "shitting" on vinyl when their entire experience was years ago with a Dual 1019 with a Shure M91 cart, or some mid-fi DD table from 1979 with a $20 audio technica cart.
Call me a snob...but I started out in this hobby with a 1985 Panasonic table, moved on to a Thorens TD-160 with a Shure V15III, and now have a VPI HW19 with a Sumiko Blackbird...and have heard my system come leaps and bounds every step of the way. My speakers and amps have shot up as well...and every system change keeps showing the limitations of the 16 bit digital format. CD's sound LOUD and that is perceived by many as having more fidelity...and I still have yet to hear an album that was recorded on analog TAPE sound better on CD than LP.
Follow Ups:
Had a second thought on this. With a CD it's quite easy to record a series of test tones and have them play back to within +/- 0.5 dB at the line out on the player. Getting a record that's even remotely close to that is nearly impossible if measured at the phono preamp's line out. I know that's not the whole story, but it is part of it.
The cutting issue is not the frequency response of the cutter head, it's the amplitude limitations at high frequencies caused by the power input needed to cut those cymbal crashes. Since the RIAA equalization significantly increases the recorded levels.Again, on the bass end, it's not frequency response, (cartridges respond to record warps)it's the amplitude limitations of what can be recorded and tracked. While it was an extreme case, do you recall the recording of the 1812 Overture with the huge canon shots back in the late 70's? The groove spacing was opened up dramatically to fit this groove onto the LP. Very few cartridges could track it, and the few that could were all ultra-high compliance MM models. To a lesser extent, bass is generally cut back on loud passages to allow tracking with average quality equipment. This also gets into the issue of the compliance of the very expensive MC cartridges. My information is admittedly out of date, but last time I looked, most MC carts had only moderate compliance.
You are talking about the Telarc 1812. I have the record and my Sure M97xe/Grace 707/LP12 tracks it with no problem.
So did my Shure M95HE in a modified Dual 1229. An ADC XLM and a Pickering XV-4500 did also, but none of my AT's would, and none of my Ortofons.
I'm not suprised about any of the cartridges listed that did track it. I'm suprised that the AT's would not. I sold the Precept line and the MM cartridges tracked fine (at the maximum recommended tracking force of 1.5 grams).
"LP playback takes a lot of commitment from the user...and I understand that most people don't have the time, space, or money to listen to LP's."Listen to yourself. Making a big deal out of spinning a little wax on the pick.
hey big man....why don't you let us know your whole vinyl regime and how easy it is??? I would love to know. Let us all know...since it comes so easy to you.
What's a vinyl regime? A record player? I've had one of those since I was 10 years old, 48 years or so ago. No big deal.
Clearly he meant regimen.. and the point, that LPs are more work than Digital software is valid.
"that LPs are more work than Digital software is valid."Well yeah, record players don't have remotes but they're not that much more work, it's not liking walking over and dropping the needle on the record is that strenous an effort.
"Why so smug?"
So thinking record players are no big deal is smugness now, eh?
"Well yeah, record players don't have remotes but they're not that much more work, it's not liking walking over and dropping the needle on the record is that strenous an effort."C'Mon now. Templates, arm setup, cart. alignment, cleaning.. versus pretty much dropping in and hitting play.
You're just being contrary.
"C'Mon now. Templates, arm setup, cart. alignment, cleaning.."Most of that was done years ago. I seldom clean records and dust on the needle is removed with the flick of a finger.
If one intends to simply use LPs, as opposed to being a finicky fussbudget, it's easy enough. Zillions of people did it for decades.
..let's just call it "different strokes" and call it a day.
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