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In Reply to: Re: Poor D.B. posted by mmhifi on April 3, 2007 at 10:48:13:
I've spoken to several manufacturers who have incorporated the Bybee devices into their gear. The majority do not wish to be identified and to become embroiled with the controversies as we see here. Those who use it say they hear a change and that they can not duplicate it by conventional means, however.But then I once made a simple device for digital playback which actually made Stereophile's recommended list I demoed it at several CES booths and, at that time, the Altis designer looked at it as said that there was no way it could affect the sound, and proceeded to place the device on his n=mega buck transport. One of the principles of Audio Prism just happened to be the room also. While the Altis designer proclaimed there was no sonic difference, the AP guy asked for a sample which I gladly provided him with....
Moral: not all designers listen for the same thing.
Follow Ups:
"I also think about all the time I spent listening to various recordings during prototype work on all the gear I designed and built. I also can reflect on all the time I spend in my Lab/office listening to music either for the sheer pleasure of it or while I am working on a project."
When I choose a part for whatever I happen to be working on I review the data sheet first. If the data sheet clearly indicates that this part is not suitable for my application, then it stops right there.
The Bybee unit only offers marketing hype, hearsay, and no clear data. In the past I have done listening tests to some "audiophile"
parts, and have come away with either one of two things.
1. This is a P.O.S.
2. I can do this cheaper and get the same results.
I'm not wasting my time any further, the unit is going back to owner for examination with an S.E.M.
d.b.
I believe the Bybee affects the voltage-current phase angles of the AC current. Have you done an analysis of the effect of the Bybee on the voltage-current phase angles?just curious
Stu, are you up to something, or are you a asking a simple technician grade question?
As I posted earlier, the Bybees sems to have the most dramatic effect after inductive components, like transformers and inductors. I do believe standard electronic theory has the voltage leading the current by 90 degrees. Being that I hear more detail in the lower frequencies, I simply suspect that placing the current more in phase with the voltage helps the lower frequencies more as the larger speaker drivers tend to be more current hungry.Unfortunately, I have no instrumentation to even attempt to try and measure this hypothesis, and for you doubters, please remember it is only a hypothesis. It may be totally off base and incorrect, but I have not seen any attempt to measure this, hence my question.
In most electronic design, we work primarily with voltages but I have always wondered about current. Since the EU is demanding that power factor correctors be installed in most electronic devices in the near future, quite oviously the voltage/current relationaship is quite important. There is very little I can find about the audibility of such relationships, however. If it is important for AC power, it must have similar ramifications with an AC signal.
I tried to do a search on the internet last night on elastic and inelastic electron collisions. The papers (each) would cost me more than an IC tweak for any real info. Try it yourself and see, just for fun.
From a technician's point of view, this Bybee device could not do anything like that, but from a physicist's point of view, maybe there is something to it. I can't measure it, and I don't know how to look for changes. I do know that Jack is always telling me to mount them near the inductors, but he won't tell me precisely why. It might be that the out of phase condition of the E-I flow after the inductor creates inelastic electrons or something.
nt.
Stu, where are you?
nt.
The only thing that will effect the phase angle is the small amount of inductance that the internal power resistor has. When you do the math for this the phase angle is less than 1 degree at 60 Hz.
d.b.
you haven't checked the possibility out. Again, just a question and I'm not asking for speculation.
Let's try a different approach. What you and Curl are claiming is analogous to the following claims. Charlton Heston claiming he perfomed all of his miracles in the Ten Commandments.
Claiming that the people of Boston should not put away their snowshovels, snowplows, and snowblowers, because we are getting a foot of snow in July.
Does it get any more absurd than this? Does anyone with a rudimentary education think that 0.3 microhenries of inductance is an issue at 60 Hz? You probably have that amount of inductance in 20 ft. ot less of Romex.
d.b.
Listen very carefully here: Just because you have no knowledge of basic electrical theory does not mean I have to test for certain conditions that are already known NOT to exist. Take a course in AC electronics 101 please, it would be a great service to not only your customers, but yourself.
This reminds of what many techniclly ignorant high enders call being
"open minded". There's a difference between being open minded and ignorance of already known electrical properties.
Puhlease!
d.b.
I had already stated that the Bybees have the greatest effect on sound when placed after inductive devices. I am not concerned with the inductance of the Bybee itself. I am asking the question: could the Bybee alter the current/voltage phase relationships of the preceding inductive device and if you have tested for this hypothesis. The inductance of the Bybee, being minimal as per your testing, would not affect the phase relationship by adding inductance which would, in my thinking, actually increase the phase shift, at least from the basic physics I have taken on the university level.I asked a fairly simple question. It is of no relevance to your honor or integrity if you haven't tested for this hypothesis. I am not trying to impugn your intentions or observations. I am asking because I believe most designers work with voltage amplification and often neglect the effects of current and its relationship to voltage. The fact that power factor correction is growing in importance means that we may have to consider that equivalent in the generation of an active AC signal. It is much more difficut with a continuously variable AC signal, though. I know of no work that analyzes this voltage/amperage relationship, and I believe the instrumentation required would be quite costly. It would be no shame to say that you haven't done so.
You do not know the purpose of the ceramic tube, and I am simply making an observation from my usage. If you, in all your wisdom, can proclaim that there is absolutely no way that any of the components used in the construction of the Bybee can alter this relationship, just say so.
When I got the first units in, I was very sceptical myself. But I tried them and heard a difference. With more experimentation, I got better in determining where best to get their maximum benefits. It wasn't exactly easy and Jack does not hand out any installation manuals. My observations are simply that, and based on my experience. and through a lot of trial and error.
But if I may make one observation, Jack is still selling his devices with a guarantee and you are not. Perhaps there may be a sucker born every minute, but he sells and you are not, and that says something, especially since he did give me a 100% money back guarantee.
Stu, I don't think that the Bybee can change the voltage-current relationship directly, It has too low of resistance, inductance, and capacitance to do so. However, it 'might' change the 'state' of some of the electrons that have been made this way by the highly reactive impedance that is present. This is only a guess about the electron state, but there is more to the Bybee than has been discussed, so far, on this website.
and he has security clearance, so apparently Bybee told him far more than he can tell most people, calls the purifiers a new class of electronic devices: neither resister, capacitor, transister, nor inductor. It sort of forces you to rethink things, and I would guess that no conventional eletronics can adequately describe what the purifiers are doing. It's food for thought, however.
Now you understand the problem. I could 'hint' further, but I would just make Jack unhappy. It isn't worth it
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