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I've got a bunch of V-caps in my Primaluna Dialogue integrated amp. They sounded great right out of the gate, but lately they're not so great ... kind of bright and thin. I'm approaching 200 hours and I know that's a milestone for break-in (as is 400 hours). I think I expected gradual improvement but I'm wondering if they see saw back and forth between good and bad before they finally settle in.
Follow Ups:
I put 0.33uF V-CAP TFTF into my tube GM70 amp. It is only about 30 hours of break-in but I'm really impressed by the sound. I was using previously AN copper PIO, AN silver (!), Jensen CU PIO, Silver Mundors and recently Jupiter and ....V-CAP beats them all from the very beginning.
Amp setup consist of EML20B driver choke loaded and GM70 tube amp with amorphous OT.
V-CAP is very dynamic, warm but very detailed at the same time. Heights are extended. Mids has a great texture and realism.
Jupiter has a detail but has a light bass and is dynamically well behind V-CAP.
AN CU PIO has a warm and rich texture, but LF are not well defined and the overall sound is slow.
Jensen PIO has great midrange but the rest of the sound aspects are behind AN CU PIO.
AN silver has something strange in the sound. It is transparent but has an unpleasant tension in a sound. Something was always wrong.
Silver Mundorfs are great in crossovers but sound is terrible in electronics.V-CAP is extremely natural and balanced, but also a bit dark despite its transparency. It is similar to fresh Black Gate caps sound. I hope, that after hundreds of break-in hours it will open even further.
It is the best cap I have ever tested!
I have ordered another pair of V-CAP caps for my tube DAC to put them at the output.
gnugear, what you are experiencing is common with Teflon capacitors. They do a one step forward / two steps back routine during the first 150-200 hours and reach more of their potential at about 400 hours. Yes, this is a lot of time to wait but you must enjoy (or deal with) the ride as it's all you can do.Does this mean your amps are going to sound GREAT at 400 hours? Only you will be able to judge. My only recommendation is to give them the benefit of the doubt or at least a fair evaluation by giving them more time. Let us know.
I use hundreds of Teflon capacitors a year (along with many other types) and I too am looking to build a cap-burner of some sort for the Teflon units I use in our products and modification. The only problem is I need something capable of burning at least 25 caps at a time.
Since I originally posted this, I passed the 200 hour mark and I'm now on hour 300. Things have improved significantly in the last 100 hours. Everything is much more natural and relaxed. I haven't noticed much between hours 200-300 but I'm anxious to reach the 400 hour mark.I absolutely love them now that I've logged in over 200 hours.
Can't answer your question about the break in issue.
Wondering whether anyone has experiences with the teflon v-cap in tweeter XO and like to share.
I'd need 3,3mF ($$$!)
regards
Duomike
It was good, but bi-amping with no capacitor was even better.Teflon caps, like most other caps, have buzzing issues when used at high signal amplitudes.
I've not seen any bigger than 1uf.
Haven't seen them in a while though. Ask eBay seller Gintaras Sakenas (kw tubes) or others who sell teflon caps, maybe they have some or can special order them for you.
I don't think this is the case, otherwise Von Scheikert wouldn't use them in his VR9 speaker.
Took the plunge and ordered 2 x 3,3mF today for my tweeter XO. Crazy expensive I know but this is a crazy hobby!
Duomike
Could potting caps lessen/eliminate this "buzzing"? I have never heard it, but then again I have never attempted to test caps for signatures.
is not audible by itself, unless you put the cap very close to your ear. The problem is that buzzing modulates the electrical signal that capacitor passes, which causes audible distortion from the tweeter.In my experience, encasing Russian teflons in wood or silicon does little to solve the buzing problem. Same with removing a cap from the steel case.
Russian K40 oil and most varieties of silver mica capacitors are the only 2 types that do not buzz, AFAIK.
The teflon V-caps do indeed go through various "roller coaster" stages. The OIMP caps are smoother in their burn-in transition. I just talked with Chris at VH Audio and he told me that up to about 100 hours, the teflon V-caps go through fits and start up problems with this roller coaster ride of good and bad sound. Must be the nature of the design. I just installed some V-cap teflons and they are approaching 100 hours. So far, at one brief stage, they sounded terrific, but overall the sound is still very pinched, strained, and tilted up in the frequency response. From what I've been told or read, the roller coaster rides begin to subside after the 200 hour mark( almost the half-way point) and the V-cap teflon will begin to show it's true colors again gradually up to the 400 hour mark and beyond. This is definitely a hobby that requires a lot of patience at times.
That's a lot of tube life (and personal life) to sacrifice.I'd consider running them on a Frycleaner or Cable Cooker for most of that time, split between a series and a parallel connection.
I agree about the waste of tube as well as personal time. However, I don't have a frycleaner or cable cooker, so I have to go the painstaking route of burning in the caps the long way. It would be nice if Vh Audio provided fully burned in V-caps for a slight price increase. It would be worth it to me, as long as the burn-in fee was modest.
I have not tried it, but I intend to.http://www.geocities.com/rjm003.geo/rjmaudio/diy_rack.html
I've got the teflon caps, not the oil version. And yes, it might have just been a bad power night. It's nothing extreme ... but it was noticeable.
I live in central Oregon and delicious black and white truffles are plentiful here.But even using this best of all ingredients, I was able to make a pasta dish with white truffles that was just too intense. I added too many ounces of truffle shavings.
Consider the possibility that any additional break-in may actually make things even more bright and thin. If so, you may be hearing what the rest of the circuit sounds like with a lot of detailed and not warm components added in.
.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
Never heard of any cap getting bright and thin with break in (in my experience they always go the other way), and I never heard of a cap taking 400 hours to break in.I think Erik is right; you might have some other problem.
Aloha,
Probably I could find hundreds of notes in these Asylums about Teflon-film caps requiring 400 - 500 hours to break in. Not been reading those, huh? :-)
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
You sure you aren't having power grid issues?Regards,
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