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In Reply to: Re: convert va to watt posted by beermanpete@socal.rr.com on March 9, 2007 at 22:30:42:
I can follow that somewhat. I saw that same explanation online. Im still wanting to know about the conversion process that I mentioned in orig post. If that is used it winds up being less watts. The entry model son of Q would only be 700 plus watts. Can you clarify the 70 %? Is the power factor something that can be known for
Equitech?
Follow Ups:
Actually to get to the heart of the matter. Just want to figure out if son of Q rated 1000 va output capacity is enough for my system
running (@ times) PS audio gca100 thats rated 500 watt max. and misc sources and pre.. all those maybe add up to just around a 100 watt. Is this model equitech going to fill the bill? Thanks
you may prefer the sound with the GCA-100 plugged directly into the wall.At 25.5 pounds total weight, your GCA-100 does not have much of a power supply. It is likely to be a switching supply. It may need unrestricted AC to deliver the best bass and dynamics, and it may be sufficiently noisy that the conditioner is needed to isolate the source component AC from it.
Switching power supplies have high power factors, so the VA and Watt ratings are similar. Your amp draws very little power unless it is delivering a lot of audio power. It will not strain a 1000-VA conditioner, but the added effective resistance of the conditioner may restrict the amp's dynamic performance.
Yes, It does have a switching supply If I recall although runs very quiet and cool. I had never thought I would buy a class D amp but being that I was in the market for a S/S to run all day as I cannot reconcile running my tube mono's all day, I thought I would give it a try since I was able to audition the same amp in integrated form from the person I bought the GCA100 from. He had gone over to PS integrated version so the 100 was available. Running with Klipsch Fortes with the passive 15" drivers on the back. The GCA delivers LOWs like Ive never heard before with what speakers I have had so far. I was actually running the GCA through a Monster HTS3500(ahem, I wont say any more) and this unit developed a hum so thought that since I was going to look for new surge protection I might as well try and get something of quality w/some real AC control. Now Im thinking of going w/Exact Power. The GCA100's dynamics were not suppressed by the monster.. although I need to check closer as now it is running out of the wall. If anything ,, now I am hearing a bit of tube rush from my SF line 1 due to the Fortes. Of course dont hear that with music playing. Its just those horns are so efficient/sensitive. Or revealing??
Actually,, I didnt mean now I am hearing tube rush after plugging everything either in the wall or a power strip. I meant that when I first hooked the Fortes up running out of the SF line 1 and the GCA100 I could detect a bit of rush.. Its definitely not the amp.. heard the same set up (w/minor differences, considering) minus the SF tube line at sellers house.. his fortes were very quiet.(w/no music)
Some of the remaining tube factories seem to have lost the art of building quiet tubes.When I observed that switching supplies are noisy, I was referring to electrical noise throughout the RF spectrum. This electrical noise can get into your other audio components and degrade the signal through intermodulation. There is also the residue of the amp's switching tone that gets into the speaker cables.
RF noise causes excessive treble energy that we perceive as emphasized 'detail' and sibilants. It is actually false, as it causes well-recorded cymbals to turn to mush. Other effects include a dry, disconnected midrange and a vague bass. Singers with complex and powerful voices, like Shirley Horn and Thomas Hampson, sound harsh and mechanical. The sound-stage is made shallow and brought forward.
Reducing RF noise reduces these symptoms. You may like your switching amp better if you find the right combination of power cords and filters to keep its noise out of the rest of your audio components. Note that most audio systems suffer from RF noise, as linear power supplies may also be strong sources of noise, and many non-audio appliances have switching supplies inside. However, the close proximity of your amp's supply makes it the first order of business in addressing the noise.
I hear you Al although I would hope that PS would have dealt with that in a constructive fashion. Ill have to see if they mention anything about switching contamination. I am ready soon to hook up the mono's for awhile and see how SET compares with class D.
I believe it is a 10 amp transformer and the Son of Q is a 15 amp xformer. The son of Q Jr. was my first balanced power transformer experience, and I used it on my entire system for quite a while. At the time I was using it, all of my components (including amplifiers) added up to just under 400W of AC power consumption. There was never any sign of stress or strain from the tranny. The system was never restricted in dynamics or loudness compared to plugging it in straight into the wall either. The sound was just noticeably quieter, blacker backgrounds, and less electronic sounding. It is perhaps the only real AC tweak that I have tried that makes an obvious improvement.As far as calculating the load, all I did was look at the owners manuals (or the back stickers) of each piece of equipment and add up the AC wattage consumption figures. It was that simple. I think that if you want to use a balanced power transformer and also sleep well at night, a good rule of thumb would be to stay around 50% to 75% of the rated power and you'll be fine. It is also recommended that you don't use them for lighting.
If you can spring for the difference in price, the BPT products are very nice too.
I guess you are talking about a Qjr. ( I think the topic had morphed into more about Q than Qjr) These are only supposed to weigh 48lbs. the Ultra 2 is noted at 60lbs. Are you certain the jr has same tranny?
Which are you referring to with 10 amp? After using yours for as long as you did , what did you eventually wind up using in your sytem,, as in now?
If you look at the table near the bottom of this page :
http://www.equitech.com/products/rack/sonofqav.html
you will see that the Son of Q Jr. uses a 10Amp capable transformer for 120V AC and the Son of Q uses a 15A xformer for 120V AC.If you think that your amp will be restricted by the 10 amp tranny then by all means get the 15A tranny (Son of Q). A 15amp transformer will not provide any less electricity than a 15A outlet that comes straight out of a 15A circuit breaker. The last time I checked, 15A is still 15A.
The only reason why I upgraded to a BPT was that I had the itch to take it up a notch (and the cash), AND I had another place in the house where I wanted to utilize my Q Jr. The BPT products are very similar to the Equitech products. They just utilize better parts such as Wattgate outletts, improved wiring, and ERS paper around the xformer.
Hope that helps.
Ah, Now that is something of note re/better parts if that is indeed the case. I think sometimes I put a little too much faith in add copy. and Equitech does very well with that. I had made an offer on a BPT ultra2 although the seller isnt going for it. I think part of the reason I am hard put to pay close to asking is because I really just havnt resolved the cost factor for this element of the overall system at this point. But, hearing what you are saying about parts quality of BPT has me leaning now in that direction, especially being that these systems are similar. Also, There is Exact Power to consider. A good review here of a EP1000.
The Equitech Son of Q is still a very nice unit. I still recommend it. It's just that you CAN get a fancier unit with BPT, but of course, you will pay for the difference.Regarding the other power device you were talking about - I have no idea what that is all about. I would hesitate using anything complicated, especially something with a feed forward design used along with a switching power suppy. Sounds like an oscillation just waiting to happen to me. Maybe people who actually own that combination can say otherwise.
Anyway, nothing bad about the Equitech stuff, even if BPT takes it a step further.
BPT may "take it a step further" with parts complement and tweaks but IMHO Equi=Tech Q type transformers are better that the Plitrons BPT uses. For one thing the Equi=Tech Q type trannies are twice the mass of the Plitron of similar ratings (60lbs versus 30-35lbs), most of it coming from a larger core. The Equi=Techs also exhibit very low inrush current and are very immune to DC on the power line. I have tried Plitron, Toroid Corp. of Maryland and Equi=Tech transformers for my DIY balanced power.
I have a Son of Q and a BPT BP-2ultra. Each one of these is a 15 amp unit and they both use Plitron trannies. The BPT weighs just as much as the Equitech, maybe more because of the heavier case. The Equitech has tripped the breaker a couple of times at turn on. The BPT never has. Not once. The BPT trannies costs a little more because they are not exactly the same OEM tranies that are in the Equitech units. They are a little better. After all of that, there is the ers paper, better wiring, wattgates, etc.To be honest with you, I have no idea what you're talking about. Either you have it backwards or my information is already outdated because the units that I own are a couple of years old already.
As good as my son of Q is, my BPT BP-2ultra is even better. But we agree to disagree. No problem : > )
Im re-realizing that you are talking about son of Q and not Qjr which is the one I was considering. I am getting an Ultra2 which is what you have been comparing the Q to. (not to Q jr, which weighs 48 lbs and is a 10 amp'er if I got it right.) I think I'm not doing too bad getting the Ultra 2 for what I'm paying. To go into a straight up Q would cost considerably more. The seller with the Q jr. who's in HI got back to me and said 550 plus shipping. that would be at least 600 maybe more from HI. A new Q jr is available online for 759 I think it was. And I didnt even look around for a better price than that.
The only other thing you might want to consider is the physical placement of your switching power amp and its case shielding. The noise from a switching power supply (in the amp) can be air borne.This kind of RF pollution won't be corrected with an AC power conditioner.
Im not sure that is really a problem with this amp. GCA 100 (PS Audio). Feel free to check out their data at PS auio site as I think there might be some info on that. Also, no need to apologize at all,, I, for one, apprectiate all the detail(s). I didnt realize that you had 2 Q's.
My original statement was about transformers, not about complete balanced power units. The BPTs do offer better parts options than Equi=Tech and that I can agree with. I don't know why you have a Plitron transformer in your Son of Q. Maybe because its the son and not the father -:). Equi=Tech makes their own trannies. In making the comparison I was talking about an Equi=Tech manufactured transformer versus Plitron, not one grade of Plitron versus another. The 20A Equi=Tech I have is 12" diameter and weighed in at 60lbs for the bare transformer. I know of other 15A and 20A Equi=Tech branded transformers weighing in at about 60 lbs. A 20A Plitron I had (again, bare transformer) was about 8" diameter, weighed in at 32 lbs and tripped a 20A breaker on the first 2-3 attempts to energize it. Its likely that BPT has spec'd their transformers from Plitron to have low inrush current. The Equi=Tech tranny has never tripped a breaker. Inrush current measured with my Fluke meter is a low 2.5 amps.
You know, it's been a while since I was doing my homework on all of this. I seem to remember that Equitech was developing their own recipe using an OEM Plitron transformer. I did not know that they wound their own. It's been so long now that I can't confirm or deny it. So, if I misled anyone here, I do apologize. But it all seems so academic with the original intent of this thread. We have gotten a bit off topic. My fault perhaps.I can still say with great certainty that :
1. I own three balanced transformers. Son of Q (15A), Son of Q Jr.(10A), and BPT 2 Ultra (15A).
The reason why I have three of them is because I have my home stereo, AND some home studio equipment, like synths, effects boxes, mixers, hard disk recorder, etc.
2. The Son of Q and the Son of Q Jr. sound the same to me. The only difference is that the Q has more wattage capacity than the Q Jr.3. The BPT sounds the very best to me on my home stereo. It may not weigh as much as the Equivilent equitech product. It may not have the same OEM transformer as the Equitech. It just sounds the best to me. I like it.
4. All three units are valuable to me. I would recommend any of them to the original poster. (I do think there are other issues to deal with when using a swithcing power supply. Shielding and proximity come to mind.)
I hope I haven't beaten this to death. I apologize if I have said anything wrong about Equitech.
Peace,
QEBTW, nice project you did there. I would be a little concerned about the caps being X or Y rated, but other than that, very nice job!
Hey, BPT used Auricaps in their products for a while, initially the "naked" caps then covering them with black heatshrink. Although the Auricaps were covered you could still identify them by their green endcaps and red and black leads.
Then it's the uh, ..... the, ....... the something or other. I forget.Thanks for the pic and the info! A picture is worth a thousand brain cells.
QE
I think you may be mistaking the PS Audio GCA class D amp with a power conditioner. As Al had mentioned it uses a switching device to generate the signal or something to that effect. Thats a very simplified generalization for me to make. Best thing is to go to PS Audio site to hear them explain it. Its basically a digital amp although certainly in a different league then whats been made up until now. The range and dynamics are quite good. And it is way efficient. PS is saying somewhere in the neighborhood of 85% and only gets barely warm to the touch. At any rate, Im not the person to go into detail as it all becomes a blur a short time after reading the details on it. And then how much hype can you believe?
I also realize that the Q jr is good and hear what you are saying about a BP being a step up.I just made a deal for a BPT ultra 2 thats 3 yrs old for $575 including shipping from over 3k miles away. The ultra 2 has 1800 watt capacity so have plenty of headroom. To me, that is a lot of money to pay for something that is not a front end component or an amp. I shall see if theres a noticeable improvement. The Q jr is reportedly essentially new and I made an offer but seller is busy and didnt respond to my first offer. Then I upped my offer thinking they were ignoring my first offer..And no response as of yet.
But,, considering what the Q jr would have cost (if they accepted) it would have been only $25 less than the BP-2. and the 2 has more to offer I think.
The Q jr ($749 at one site) is available for much less new than a BP2 (900+) I do like the Q jr too. Kind of partial to the ying yang thang. But, looks cant always win out.
Watts equal VA times the cosine of theta. Theta is the phase angle between voltage and current, and is always less than 1 for reactive loads.The cosine of zero degrees (resistive load) is 1, and the cosine of 45 degrees is .707. If your gear produces a phase angle greater than that something is very wrong.
I assume you are talking about a power line conditioner, and you can use the above without overloading it. But, if you can afford it, a bigger one might sound better.
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