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In Reply to: Re: Outlet Caps????? posted by Bob Rex on March 5, 2007 at 09:05:15:
"I've got to agree. This looks to be more jewelry than anything else."Why not buy one, try it out and THEN report back to us if the product has merit or is just audio jewelry :-)
While Tweek does have valid observations, there R attributes of the electrical delivery system as we know it that raise questions. I am
NOT discounting the RF absorbtion into the house wiring, what I am trying to suggest is that the AC cap is doing more to damp parasitic resonances in the AC line which are induced into the house wiring inside the VERY resonant walls....especially if they are constructed of plasterboard.A good example is high end outlets. On the surface, it is just an outlet that is really an interface between the house wiring and products that utilize electricity to function. It is well known that that quality of the outlet can have a very profound sonic effect on ones system and it is NOT the fact that it can pass electricity via better materials BUT the fact that it passes electricity without inducing colorations/distorion/resonances into the AC waveform.
JMHO of course,
Follow Ups:
"Why not buy one, try it out and THEN report back to us if the product has merit or is just audio jewelry :-)"Cause I don't have an RFI problem, and even if I do it's inconsequential enough that 1) I'm not aware of it and 2) I've never had any symptoms that would make me want to investigate.
I use a PS Audio Power Director. It's my understanding that the baluns block this noise from entering and passing from outlet bank to outlet bank. All of my outlets are full, so I'd have no place to hang this necklace.
"Cause I don't have an RFI problem, and even if I do it's inconsequential enough that 1) I'm not aware of it and 2) I've never had any symptoms that would make me want to investigate."Most people are unaware of electrical problems, such as noise, until they have heard them mitigated. Take RF for instance, U certainly aren't aware of it thru ones system, but once it's effectively removed, a layer of grunge seems to have been wiped away.
"I use a PS Audio Power Director. It's my understanding that the baluns block this noise from entering and passing from outlet bank to outlet bank. All of my outlets are full, so I'd have no place to hang this necklace."
The Baluns block the noise on the Line and Neutral lines but does nothing for the Earth GND. which is where ALOT of noise is riding on the AC and is entering ones system.
If U want a good demostration of RF noise reduction, procure some Ferrite clamps and pop the hood on the Power director. Place the clamp around the Earth GND. wire where it enters the PD and sit back for a listen.Report back with your findings and no it will NOT void your warranty :-)
Cheers,
When you say "the AC cap is doing more to damp parasitic resonances in the AC line which are induced into the house wiring inside the VERY resonant walls....especially if they are constructed of plasterboard",and "the fact that it (the ac outlet) passes electricity without inducing colorations/distorion/resonances into the AC waveform",
. . . . are you saying that acoustic vibrations will modulate the 60Hz AC signal and that's also why we have cruddy AC power? Or are you talking about RF parasitic resonance?Just trying to clarify and hopefuly understand. Honest.
". . . . are you saying that acoustic vibrations will modulate the 60Hz AC signal and that's also why we have cruddy AC power? Or are you talking about RF parasitic resonance?"Yes, the vibrations induced by the acoustical energy from the speakers or other vibration inducing medium striking the plaster board in which the outlet is mounted in ones room will modulate the integrity of the AC waveform by inducing vibrations into the wiring/outlet and that is modulating the AC energy itself.
RF invasion is totally different. In this case, one would need to install a GND'd metal barrier to block the RF frequency wavelengths that coincide with the wiring in ones system. With that in mind, each system will be different as to the "tuning" of RF since each residential wiring will NOT be identical.
It would be the same as tuning a radio station with a capacitive tuner but the RF frequencies are spread out and ones house wiring would be susceptible to multiple frequency invations.
Very complex but different approaches to mitigate the RF invasion into ones home wiring cannot be hung on a single application.
Cheers,
. . . will I suddenly hear a major improvement in the AC power quality because the walls are not vibrating from the speakers?What if I just turn the volume way down? Should I hear the quality of the mains improve compared to when it was playing loud?
Would this be a good way to see if I'm making improvements in my AC line "acoustic isolation"?
not sure if your being facetious but I will address your questions.". . . will I suddenly hear a major improvement in the AC power quality because the walls are not vibrating from the speakers?"
One cannot use this scenario as the vast change in the acoutical environment when wearing headphones vs. the room and the room is taken out of the equation is too large and the AC assesment would be overshadowed.
"What if I just turn the volume way down? Should I hear the quality of the mains improve compared to when it was playing loud?"
What we are dealing with here will have more to do with room acoustics and it's effect on the system sound. If poor room acoustics are in play, then again, one would hear the reduction of the influence of the room way before hearing the effects it has on the AC integrity.
"Would this be a good way to see if I'm making improvements in my AC line "acoustic isolation"?"
Again, if U have a very poor room in which the room is awash in acoustical distortion(s), then it would be hard to discerne just how much the AC is being effected by the room acoustic bombardments as these would be the overlaying issues masking the small details.
IF my AC wiring and outlet are performing poorly because of acoustic interference, then couldn't I just reduce the volume a little and hear the AC quality get better? I think I can tell the difference between overloading the room and improving the electronics. I also think it would be worth knowing if I have a problem before I attemp to fix it.Ordinarily I would just do an A/B swap, or, tweak and untweak to find out for myself. But it takes several hours to do an outlet change/tweak. I have to take components out of my rack to get access to the AC outlet, and then put it all back together again. At that point, who would know what I really changed?
Anyway, I think this is a reasonable question for those of you who claim that acoustic vibrations deteriorate the quality of the AC mains. I am not trying to be a "non believer", I just want to know what I am supposed to be listening for before I tear it all apart again. I think its a fair question.
Hope that clears things up a bit. Thanks for putting up with me.
Best,
QE
HowdyI'm steering clear of most of the issues in this thread but merely addressing "IF my AC wiring and outlet are performing poorly because of acoustic interference, then couldn't I just reduce the volume a little and hear the AC quality get better?"
Everything you are talking about is a linear operation, i.e. turning down the volume by 10% causes 10% less vibration causes 10% less distortion, etc. and you end up with exactly the same relative distortion cause by acoustic interference at any volume, hence changing the volume doesn't tell your ear anything about how much acoustic interference you have. Now when non-linear things start happening it's another story (e.g. in my room when the bass gets loud enough to cause the air ducts and those silly metal air vents to start rattling :)
But I do understand what you're saying about exciting things in the room. Acoustically, that is. I'm just trying to use my "turn the volume down" test to get an idea of whether or not my AC wiring (and outlet) can be tagged as problematic. Or something worth pursuing. I have a strong feeling that it is not.Maybe my system doesn't care if the AC isn't perfect. That could be the most likely reason why AC tweaks have very little, if any, effect over here.
"I'm just trying to use my "turn the volume down" test to get an idea of whether or not my AC wiring (and outlet) can be tagged as problematic. Or something worth pursuing. I have a strong feeling that it is not."The AC wiring/outlet issues only came to light after I had extensively tweaked my system(s), including the room, to a high degree of resolution.
Therefore, I would suggest that one take care of big system tuning issues such a room acoustic treatment, component isolation from the environment,ETC. before venturing down the AC refinement path.
The Oyaide WCP-Z is THE most cost effective upgrade one can do to mitigate the acoustical resonances which result when soundwaves impinge on the drywall if their AC outlets are mounted to drywall.
Cheers,
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