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I have a Blue Circle power bar that currently is sitting on my ceramic floor (no room for it on my rack) and I was wondering what isolation I should be using to raise it off the floor
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Hello my friend: interesting your question. I would suggest you to try a set of three or four Isolpads (www.questforsound.com) or Isoblocks (www.mapleshaderecords.com). I have my Richar Gray Power Company 240 volts Substation (100 pounds) over a cuadruple set of to stacked Isolpads with good results. Having myself a wood suspended floor, I have a double marble slabs between the Isolpads to maximize their performance. Both Isolpads and Isoblocks are very affordable. Good luck, let us know your decision/experiences. Best, Antonio Machado.
Image: Bamboo BikeLaminated bamboo has excellent vibration damping properties. I found that an inexpensive laminated bamboo cutting board provides very good results when placed under my PLC's with Herbie's Audio Lab footers involved in the configuration. Here's what I'll suggest as a cost effective option for your narrow footprint Blue Circle power bar...
Herbie's Audio Lab Baby Bootie feet (w/pressure-sensitive adhesive) - Place a quantity of four (4) under your power bar:
http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/bbootie.htm
TruBamboo Medium Palm Beach Model 3121 laminated bamboo cutting board (6-1/4" x 13-1/2" x 3/4") - Place your power bar on top of the board:
http://www.trubamboo.com/palmbeach.htm
Herbie's Audio Lab Gabon Ebony Dome with 1.6mm grungebuster base (w/pressure-sensitive adhesive) - Place a set of three (3) in a stable tripod configuration under the laminated bamboo cutting board and then place board on your ceramic floor:
http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/dome.htm
Does bamboo offer better vibration damping than carbon fiber? These folks think so:
Apparently Martha Stewart is into this as well since K-mart sells her laminated bamboo cutting boards.
IME, power distributors and filters ALSO need to be off the floor and vibrationally damped. I'm sure about that for mechanical isolation, but also for static field (think what cable risers may be doing).Which scheme works for any vibration control situation varies SOOOOOO widely, that I'd recommend you experiment. First decide by trying cheap/easy isolation, then coupling and see. Then a combo of two.
Try raising 1" off the floor, then 4" off the floor and listen for any differences.
You want cheap and easy to experiment? Try a baggie of sand. Fill it to raise it 1" off the floor and listen; then 2", etc. The sandbag should not just underly the bar, but also cradle it on the sides for max mechanical damping and stability.
FWIW, I'm leaning toward damping and isolation vs. coupling for this application. The source of mechanical vibration for the power bar is mostly floorborne vibes coming up into it that way, but secondarily the vibration of the components and airborne shaking down through the power cords. It isn't likely to be inside or from the bar itself (unless you have a transformer humming inside it). This lends itself to the sandbag type damping solution.
Thanx guysWhen you mention a baggie of sand does it matter what material the bag is made of can it be shopping bag
Would the blue circle pucks work well for this application
I have a few of them lying aroundThe bamboo laminated wood what type of isolation is this considered
Thx in advance for the number of replies I hope you will chime in again for further assistance
For the sand I'd use ordinary plastic bags or ziplocks. You don't want that crap leaking! YOu also want it flexible to mold to the shape of the powerbar.Though I count Duster as highly knowledgable, I'm a bit skeptical about the bamboo laminates. All laminates are better than solids (so are multi-density sandwiches and composites like MDF), birch ply being a commonly used one, so bamboo would work too. But I doubt that it's any more effective and bamboo is by nature "springy". Springy qualities are not quite what you want to isolate or dissipate vibrational energy. That's an untested theory, nothing more.
I don't know what the blue circle pucks are. If you have them and they're some kind of footer, try them. You've got nothing to lose.
Thanx Bart
Duster care to explain why you think the bamboo laminates with the Herbies tweaks is recommendedThese kind of discussions are why I love audio
I'm here to learn and at the same time enjoy the musicAll opinions welcomed
He likes to experiment and usually recommends what he's found actually works. That's why I didn't automatically dismiss the bamboo on theoretical grounds: I was sure he must have tried it before saying it works.Damping, flexibility, and hardness are all different things, Patster. When it comes to material qualities and practical applications, you can find all sorts of anomalies.
For example, in bikes for vibrational damping titanium is one of the best things. It's light but very strong for its weight. Yet it can both flex (and damp) and be stiff at the same time in a sort of paradoxical way. So high end bikes used to use it as much as possible before suspension systems. I suspect it would be crappy for audio, however.
Bamboo is legendary for "bending", flexing and springing back in its wild grass state (though it can grow to full tree size, it is indeed a grass). I have no idea if it behaves that way as a laminate, however. I had no idea that it had a hardness rating that was high (or the lam does).
Superballs really flex like crazy, but they are inherently springs. They store the energy at first absorbed, then give it right back with gusto. That turns out to be NOT good for sonics when seeking to actually turn vibes into heat energy so that the motion STOPS as much as possible. So Norsorex (dead balls) are great absorbers/converters and they do NOT bounce at all to the naked eye. And hardness has nothing to do with these guys.
It isn't the hardness that's the key to damping at all. Hard solids are great conductors of vibrations, which makes them good at coupling, not isolating or dissipating energy. Laminates or multi-density sandwiches are great because they dissipate a little more energy at a little different frequency at each interface they encounter within their structures. \
Sand dissipates the energy.
You play with all of these and see what combos work for your application. YMMV is ever so right in this instance....
Laminated bamboo is not springy, in fact it’s quite hard. According to ASTM 1037 tests, bamboo shows an average hardness of 1642, making it 21 percent harder than white oak and 13 percent harder than hard maple (some info states it to be 16% harder than maple and in some instances as strong as steel). I find it's sonic signature to be rather transparent when used as a component platform in conjunction with Herbie's Audio Lab footers. A platform that implements a compliant footer + hard footer combination works well for me in many cases. In your situation, I think a tripod set of Gabon Ebony Dome footers should be gentle on your ceramic floor (coupling discs can be used if not), and IME the Baby Bootie footers perform well when placed under my PLC's that rest on top of a floor-placed laminated bamboo component platform. I much prefer laminated bamboo's sonic signature over other woods that I've tried for PLC platform projects (bamboo is actually a grass, so it's not wood, per se). YMMV
Thank-you so much guys for helping a budding audiophile outDuster I will go with your recommendations
Any idea where I can find laminate (Does Wallmart carry it ?)
You will need a specific size, so you might not find what you need at discounters like Ross Dress For Less or TJ Maxx where I found the Palm Beach models that I use. Bed Bath & Beyond sells TruBamboo products, but I don't know if they carry the TruBamboo Medium Palm Beach Model 3121 (6-1/4" x 13-1/2" x 3/4") that will fit your power bar's footprint. If you can't find one at a local store, here's an online seller's Model 3121 page link:
Thanx Duster for all your help here
I live in Canada and some of these retailers are not available
I wil check out the online linkLastly since I'm going to purchase some Gabon Ebony dome for my Power bar could you suggest some thing for my Blue circle music ring and Pre amp I was looking at the baby booties but I was reading they should only be used for light weight applicatons My music bar is 50lbs and my Tubed Linestage is close to that weight as well
I currently have these on a rack where the shelves are made of mdf
and I am not using any sort of isolation
I suggest you email TruBamboo and ask them who sells the product in Canada.Yes, the Baby Bootie is intended for a lightweight device. The Gabon Ebony Dome doesn't have a weight limitation, and I find it to perform excellent for preamp and power amp use. The Gabon Ebony Dome also performs exceptionally well when placed on an ordinary wood shelf without the use of a platform. I expect you would be very pleased with the Gabon Ebony Dome for your needs :-)
The Iso-Cup with Gabon Ebony Ball or SuperSonic Hardball is even better, but more pricey.
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