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In Reply to: Re: To what extent can cryo treatment be used in audio equipments? posted by unclestu52 on October 8, 2005 at 14:32:03:
Stu- Thank you for your well thought out response and I am aware
of that side of things I was the Univ. of Wi. Kendo Sensei for a few years and ended up making some wonderful Gen X friends, one of whom Perry is a brilliant EE and one Saturday morning as we were listening to Pink Floyd and drinking coffee, I mentioned that I'd built my first DIY IC's and speaker cables (both were the Jon Risch
Beldon 89259 recipe the basic ones)Perry said that was nice and that doubtless kept me off the streets and out of trouble, but he hoped I didn't actually take any of that stuff seriously, and proceeded to expound at length and in great tedious detail ;-) how the differences
would require very expensive test equipment to even measure and would be at least 2 full levels of magnitude below possible human perception.
Now Perry is truly brilliant he does research out of the Universities various departments, does contract work for NASA
has a regimental combat team of PHD's who have worked under his direction and at the moment is involved in trapping Neutrinos
(can you imagine trying to skin one of those puppies out ? ;-)At any rate I said lets see, so I shut things down and replaced the expensive MIT IC's between my Preamp and 45 SET amp with the JR Beldons, and fired up "Wish You were here" Perry's mouth hung open
and it sounded like my Full range high efficiency loudspeakers had had artic sleeping bags bungiied around the removed, seriously improved neutrality and clarity, my friend was speechless and near being in a state of shock, we repeated that with the speaker cables and there was an increase in clarity as well, just not nearly as dramatic as the IC's.And I've also learned that my SET amp which seems a bit lame looking at it's output on an O'scope in comparison to my SS Moon 1.5 integrated and yet has crystalline imaging a black backround and is so damn musical and engaging that I don't answer the phone of doorbell or even drain the Lizzard until I'm in extremus.
However some of these things are so very obviously preposterous and the avaricious opportunistic dirtbags who are essentially punking some of you out have nothing but sheer contempt for thier marks, the 2200% profit over-ride should be your first serious clue,
then if you read the absurd and utterly ridiculous descriptions of the benefits and the principals behind them, it becomes patently obvious that they are anti social sleezoids and are essentially putting you over the barrel and pouring it to you, about the only difference between them and TV evangelists is about 35 point higher IQ and slightly better Karma.I used to be a partner in an Advertising/PR agency and used to write drivel like this myself (and not particularly proud of it either) and have met countless assholes just like this where you need to count your fingers and check to make sure your still wearing your watch after shaking their hands, and feel like taking a long very hot shower.
But to each his own, and if you havent taken the opportunity to bring up this URL please do so.
Follow Ups:
As you know marketing is everything in the US. Cryo effects can be heard by as simple a deed as placing CD's in your freezer. I purchased a surplus lab freezer which goes to -40 C and the effect is even greater and can be heard even on cables and things of that nature. Most cryo companies offer fairly reasonable costs: I've seen cryo treatments offered for as low as $10 per pound. For the time involved and the amount of LN used I would think that as a fair price, although shipping to and from can kill you. Hint, check out your local universities, as many have cryo facilities.As for other audio products, well, that is another story. Still it takes $10K to get a patent with the attorneys and searches you have to go through, and things like that add to the cost of the item. As you were in advertising, then you know the horrendous advertising rates being charged. Mike Sanders of Quicksilver, who has never advertised, once told me he estimated tht his retail prices would have to triple to pay for similar advertising that his competitors take out.
I would still agree that there are a few hucksters out there (well maybe more than a few).....
Sometimes though, there may be a kernal of truth to some of the more outlandish claims made. I've been surprised more than once by some weird things that didn't make sense at all, at least not in the beginning.
Stu-Would you consider the folks selling the $500 Wooden Knobs and $6000.00 volume controls as having any validity or being on the level ?
If you had the financial wherewithal, would you consider a Cryogenic listening room, sort of like Batman's Nemisis Yhe Penguin ? ;-)(I'm just kidding)
I have Cryo'd Rifle barrels, but I don't think I'd bother with CD's
as I'm one of the Vinyl cranks I only listen to CD's while I'm riding my Motorcyle, mowing the lawn or canoeing.But it would be interesting to see if I could hear the effect with IC's and a Phono IC would be one of the more revealing applications, does Cryoing change the capacitance, inductance or resistance ?
I have eaten my share of Crow in this hobby so far ;-)
stories about some very well known audio companies and their practices. I know of one company which sent a memo out to their dealers saying that they had reburshed products reconditioned so that they looked to be brand new in every respect and that they would be available very cheaply but could be sold as new. This was when they had just announced a new model.
On the other hand, if you purchased a $500 volume control knob, you probably deserve the outcome.
Seriously, though, even before the $500 wooden knob came out, I discovered that the knobs do significantly affect the sound. I was experimenting with some of the 3M tube dampeners, which are made from a very stretchy plastic. You can expand the small 1.25 inch ring to as much as 4 inches in diameter, but it shrinks back down to very close to the original size in a few minutes. Anyway, as I was experimenting with some power tubes I decided to remove the dampeners and placed them on my preamp volume control knob so I wouldn't have to restretch them as much if I elected to put them back. I was stunned to notice that the sound gained quite a bit of detail even though I had removed the dampeners from their designed use.
In further experimentation I came to realize that a heavy metal knob on a long shaft actually passed on some vibration to the wipers of the volume pot. With this reasoning I placed the dampener so it barely touched the faceplate, figuring that the dampening of the knob to the faceplate should further reduce vibration. Sure enough, the detail increases even more. The effect, of course, can be duplicated to a great degree by a simple o-ring. The little experiment, though, did open my eyes and ears to the fact that even something so mundane as a volume control can affect the sound.
This idea of the volume knob shaking the pot and causing problems is an interesting one. Easy enough to visualize, perhaps too easy, thus its appeal.Also easy to test. I have begun tests. But I'll start another thread for that.
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