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then thawed them out today. All tubes in my system.I played them this evening and all I can say is, dang if it ain't better, it sure ain't worse. The system noise level dropped a notch, most objectively, with less hiss and hum. Go figure. Seems more clear than ever. There goes my credibility as a EE. They'll all think I now believe in ET's doin' crop circles.
Now I'm freezin' my other tubes off the HT system. A quad of VV45's is in there now. Oops, there goes the warranty.
I put them all in a ziplock baggie to keep the moisture off them as much as possible. We'll see if it works twice.
Kurt
Follow Ups:
O.k.This is the funniest thing I've ever heard...
Y'all would have gotten the same benefit by just unplugging and replugging the tubes into the tube sockets.
These were all new tubes all with clean pins and clean sockets. No noticeable change. Maybe I should not breathe on the other set for fear of more microphonics now that they're seated so well.The good news is: no bad changes. Probably can't go wrong freezing them in a plastic bag.
I went back to the HT system with DVD player used as CD source and transformer volume control and VV45 PP amp. I listened to a wider selection of music and with a more relaxed feeling. I heard greater clarity all around this time, especially with more complex music. I am convinced it's better now. I missed it the first time I think by playing only one disc that actually was blurry, one I heard last night, and listening before resting enough from the day.So I'll be damned, again. I have a way to rejuvenate tubes, by freezing them. So easy to try, too. That's really an odd tweak, and I don't think I care how it works.
Great idea, convinced the wife to convert the entire refrigerator into preamp and tuner section with the freezer an amp section. Now should I have the door work as a giant potentiometer for volume control. The little light inside was replace with a GZ34 but how do I know it's staying on when I shut the door? Don't ask what I did with the speakers :-[
Charles
Boys, Boys whats going on here??? Give me all of those frozen tubes. Now let that be a lesson to you!!!
,
Kurt, thanks for standing up and speaking of your experience - flames or no, it's great that you share of this.
Please keep us informed as to how your tubes do over time.
This is what you might call an uncontrolled experiment; perhaps removing and reinserting the tubes scraped oxidation off the pins and sockets, or a host of variables. It's never helped my tubes, but then again perhaps my freezer isn't appropriate for this... Chris
Just as you suggested, I put her in the freezer. I left her there most of the night.It was amazing.
When I took her out, there was NO hissing! Nothing at all! She didn't even hum! Dead quiet!
I put her back into the living room. Beautiful silent background all evening.
But this morning, the hissing was back, and it was EVEN LOUDER than before. It was really, really bad. So bad I had to leave the house.
I can only conclude that you should do this with great caution. Yes, it does have some short-term effects. But after they wear off, it may be worse than before.
nt
Wow, I thought for a minute you were serious. I didn’t catch the “wife” part in the subject line the first time I read your post.I had the pre-amp in a Giant freezer bag, and had already removed most of last seasons frozen Elk Burgers from the freezer to make room for the Mono Blocks, when I returned to the computer to re-read your post.
Shit, you were just kidding!
Now what am I gonna do with 50 lbs. of half thawed Elk Burgers?
Ship 'em to me FAST!!!!
Hope she isn't NOS...
Nope, if I listed her on bay, it would be "slightly used but test as new, original rack".
NT
this joke was juvenile the first time I read it. Probably a year ago, in a similar such cryothread. And it's misogynistic. Let's stick to audio, dudes.
...are we supposed to be stone-face serious when talking about putting vacuum tubes in a freezer?
nt
Levity is always welcome. The cold war is over. We can smile now. It's just tubes. Lighten up. Chris
I thought we hit the pun button back when the guy said his wife didn't hum when he froze her - was I wrong???
Not quite sure what you mean-- I connected the thread topic (coldness) with the combative nature of some posts; hence "cold" war. I can't make the connection you see with hum and cold; do you mean satire or joking rather than pun? chris
A pun???
Robert-- I couldn't help myself. They say puns are the lowest form of humor... perhaps we can call it "wordplay" :0) Chris
Sorry to be so obscure. In reference to Robert H's post regarding his frozen spouse. No hiss or (hummers) at his house. That would be classified a pun - wouldn't it? Anyway - Thanks for your earlier post on the Telsa KT88s.
your lack of humor, Oh Castrati, isn't.
1. I used my freezer.
2. I don't know how long it will last, may be very temporary.
3. I don't know why it works, and no scientific proof as to if it works, even. Might be all psychological.It's actually not hard to do this scientically with enough samples of tubes. Control group of untreated versus treated. Measure the noise in the system before and after with a sensitive instrument.
I do know this. The hum level went down noticeably on the power amp. The only hum in this amp seems to only be from the one transformer in there that's on all the time - the filament battery recharger, electrically out of the circuit, but mechanically in the circuit slightly. That means the mechanical vibration of the transformer is getting into the microphonic 01-A tubes enough to generate a low residual hum (I ought to remove it). After treatment this small microphonic pickup was indeed reduced for the time being.
The only thing that could be helping that I can imagine is somehow the structural supports in the tube and probably the grid especially are made less like a tuning fork somehow, reducing noise in every way. This would make the sound clearer. I don't know how that would actually work consistently by freezing it, and I bet cycles of heat will break down the improvement over time quite quickly. Does lower temperatures make it more permanent? I don't know.
Sorry, but I am failing to see what long term benefit freezing one's tubes in a refigerator freezer can accomplish. Maybe I could fathom the possibility using careful cryogenic technique (maybe), but a refrigerator? You cannot develope a low enough temperature. Also don't they call tubes vacuum tubes? I mean heat is not supposed to transfer in a vacuum. I realize that it is not that hard a vacuum but what is really going on here? How much heat transfer can happen via the pins and the internal connections? I can just see the new and latest audio accessory on the horizon, the "Valve Flash Freezer" chills your favorite beverage, while making your valves sound better. (or was it just the beverage?) Sorry, but I'm more than just a little sceptical on this one. Now let me tell you about the Mpingo Discs.......
"Nothing quite like high voltage DC to sharpen the mind and body!"
This I was aware of. Not sure how well it transfers in a freezer though.
"Nothing quite like high voltage DC to sharpen the mind and body!"
You have noticed that the pins generally located towards the bottom are connected to the nifty bits inside haven't you? :)
Yes, and I mentioned it in my initial post.....
"Nothing quite like high voltage DC to sharpen the mind and body!"
Sorry about that.As to the heat transfer from pin to innards via rather fine connections... suffice to say that it would be sufficient in a proper cryo treatment. The equations to prove it are a bit more difficult to post in raw ascii text.
I can see where proper cryo-treating would potentially change things (whether it is good or bad I don't know), freezing them in ones freezer I don't believe is the answer. How long lasting is the treatment of a properly cryo-treated tube? Does it enhance the service life? I realize I made serious light of this whole thread, but is there serious documentation to support and confirm whether it is just a short lived change or a real long lasting improvement? Just looking for the answers to become a believer.
"Nothing quite like high voltage DC to sharpen the mind and body!"
when the tube is operating, most of the heat transfer is through radiation, goes as fourth power of absolute temp, delta T is about 180-200 K between operation temp of plate and surroundings. This is why a smaller EL34 plate is good for 25 W and the bigger KT88 is rated at 42 Watts. Sinking the thing in liquid N2 gives the same delta T between surroundings( the coooold liquid N2, and the tube's innards 270 K. of course some will be transfered through the pin connections, but look at how thick the connections are ( effective resistance ) and the mass of material bahind it ( model as capacitance ). anyway, just had to put in two Cents...
regards,
Douglas
nope
Kurt,Been out of this loop---are you "freezing" them at 32F or at Liquid Nitrogen range?
And does the benefit wear off, as the tube get used more and more? Do you need to keep re-freezing them after each listening session?
Thanks. Be interested if the gain stage and PI tubes benefit more or the power tubes.
And if the effect does wear off and you need to re-freeze them , do they need to be frozen at successively colder and colder temperatures ?
curious
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