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I have read the various posts including Joe's Tube Lore which is a wealth of information, but nonetheless I am going to ask something which i feel sure some will view as redundant. Just would like some ears on perspective from someone who has replaced the Sovtek 6922's in a preamp with a different tube and what your listening experience and thoughts are on the tube switch. And what tube you ultimately decided on. I need to just ease off the top end a bit on some recordings, especially large brass ensemble.
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I replaced the Sovteks 6922 in my preamp wit EI 6DJ8 elites and WOW!!!..vocals much sweeter and no harshness in upper treble.
Better in all respects but they need 50 hours plus of burn-in time
Guido www.delgi.com
I also have an LS-16. Its sound is a very noticeable improvement over the ARC LS9 that it replaced; nothing earth shattering, but everything was better.Put in some Amperex 7308's. When I first put them in, they sounded bright clangy... I ran to the archives and did a search on "break-in". After 50 or 60 hours, they sounded very nice. The sound stage seemed to have improved, but I couldn't clearly remember the sound of the Sovteks.
More tubes--Amperex and Seimens 6DJ8's. The Seimens were very forward and analytical--too much on the top end with my Thiel speakers. The Amperex were much more acceptable. Even before they were fully broken in, their characteristic sound was apparent.
Put the Sovteks back in for a month. They initially sounded kind of flat, but after a while, forgetting what I had heard with the other tubes, I wasn't sure that the other tubes were all that much better. So after listeninbg to the Sovteks carefully for a few hours, I put the Amperex 7308's back in. The soundstage was huge! The sound had a vibrancy and life that just wasn't there with the Sovteks. The contrast between the fully broken in 7308's and the Sovteks, was substantial. The top end of the Amperex has a lot less crud in it. The high frequencies are strong, but lacking the distortion of the Sovteks, they are much more listenable.
Sorry for the lengthy ramble, but it might give you a better idea of what you can expect from the higher priced spread.
Hi,
I don't know how many 6922's you're using in your preamp, but you may find a combination of tubes helpful. I use a pre with 8 6922's, which were all Sovteks, and I rolled in 2 JJ 6922's, and voila! - much tamer highs, and nice full midrange. 2 were the only quantity that worked, and placement was critical within the preamp. I hear (hah!) that the 6h23 tube does really well, and is a bit softer on top, and they're Much cheaper than most of the sought-after NOS. People have said that power cords can make a bigger difference than interconnects - Harmonic Technology power cords come to mind as good candidates. Room treatments, and equipment bases, cones, and footers could help - as I understand it, rubber or "rubbery" bases/ feet can soften harsh highs.Lastly, even though they're hard to find, the new Ei Elite 6dj8's could work for you, but nobody has reviewed 'em yet.
Thanks for your thoughts. I am running 4 6922's, so not a huge thing to replace all them. (depending upon what I use) I already have a Shunyata Sidewinder Gold AC cable and an FIM outlet running through and AudioPrism Foundation 3 so I think I am okay in the AC department. I thought about putting Sonex panels on the walls, but my wife already thinks I have ruined the room with my amp sitting on a stand on the floor, so that is probably out!! I have not seen the Ei Elite 6dj8's listed anywhere, but will keep my eyes open for them.
We have different preamps. Mine is heavily moded Counterpoint SA3000. It came with the Sovtek 6922's. The high end was very brittle and made me grit my teeth. I found that just about any of the NOS Amperex or Siemens & Halske 6DJ8/6922/7308's tamed the problem when used in the line stage. Can't say that I've settled on any one tube. They all have different presentations and I swap around to suit my tastes at the moment.
I did a significant amount of listening comparison among various 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308 tubes as a replacement for the Sovtek 6922 that came with my Counterpoint SA 2000 preamp.Of course the circuit, cables, amp and speakers determine much of the sound you hear, but I also found the Sovtek to be hard to listen to, especially in the upper treble range.
I like the Amperex 6922 PQ, particularly the pinched waist version that I've had in the circuit for the past 6 months. Recently I found an Amperex 7308 SQ pinched waist that I like even better.
Almost anything in a NOS 6DJ8, 6922 0r 7308 will sound better than the Sovtek 6922 IMO. I have found that Joe S's comments regarding the various tubes he reviewed to be pretty realistic, at least for my system.
Unfortunately tubes are very linear devices, they do not start rolling off at 12k hz. Better tubes buy you less distortion that sounds better. You may interpret this as less high frequency/warmer sound, but I doubt you can find tubes that will act like tone controls. Most people have to resort to using cables as tone controls to tame a bright high frequency. Your problem is more likely with your speakers.
Thanks Chris - you only reiterate what I suspect. I am using Dunlavy Cantata speakers and they do not hide much. I think the issue is also certain recordings, for example I find on the Telarc recording in LP and CD Fanfare for the Common Man by Copland, that both are bright with massed brass. Perhaps my front end and pre/power are not forgiving electronics, which is what I have attempted to put together. Maybe time to give Vandersteens a listen. I am also listening this week (ahhh - a week off and I don't have to travel anywhere!) to AQ Anacondas, Pythons and Vipers, AZ Matrix I and II and Harmonic Tech ProSilway II to see if one of those will help a bit. So far the Pythons seem to have provided some softening of the glare I described. Expensive, but cheaper that new speakers.I appreciate your taking time to respond and share your thoughts.
The Telarc LPs are digitally recorded. Though good, brasses tend to sound a bit harsh on these recordings. Try using a true all-analog source for your reference on this. If you like the Copland, the Philip Jones Brass Ensemble has done it on the Argo and London Treasury labels. Maybe you can find one of these used.If you want a moderately priced cable with smooth yet detailed highs, take a look at the Homegrown Audio Silver Lace.
Thanks for the suggestion on the alternate recording. I will look into it. Have seen some LP's new at one site and that may be worth trying, if it is indeed all analog.
Just found a Reference Recordings version along with some other Copland compositions. Other Reference Recordings I have listened to are excellent so may give this one a try.
Your problem sounds like clipping in the amplifier or the wall AC. I had the same midrange problem on certain classical recordings with some high powered stereo SS amps. I switched to Wolcott Presence mono amps and the problem is gone.
Thanks for your thoughts. Not sure I am getting clipping with pretty efficient speakers and a tube amp, but it is a thought. Thanks for taking time to respond.
JJanalog is on to something. Early digital recordings of horns could definitely be revealed through the Dunlavys. How powerful are you amps? HAve you tried Cardas Golden series cables at all?
My amp is 100wpc and the Dunlavy's are 90dB SPL so they are fairly efficient. I have not tried the Cardas Golden Reference interconnects and that is something I considered. I currently have Acoustic Zen Silver Ref Mark II between CD and pre and AZ Matrix Ref Mark II between pre and power. The Cardas could be the ticket. I guess the good news for me is it is not on all recordings. Listening to Miles Davis Kind of Blue remastered on Legacy is not too bright and even though that remastering is better than Columbia Masterworks it does lend toward being just a tad "hot." I seem to only feel like I have a fork in my ear with the massed brass ensembles. Maybe I will just look for another recording as was suggested earlier or stick to quartets and quintets! Think I will go pour a glass of wine and enjoy the music a little more!Thanks for the thoughts on the Cardas. I will have to see if I can find a pair of those to audition.
I believe that the Golden Reference is considered more neutral than the Cardas Cross and Golden Cross lines. These cables roll off the high frequencies somewhat. The Golden Cross cables cost twice as much as the Cross and have a more refined top end. You might prefer one of these cables to the neutral reference.
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