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In Reply to: Are Mullard CV4024 and M8162 the same? posted by Don on July 21, 2002 at 07:32:42:
The ones I see now will have the old Mullard logo, which is incorrect to the vintage. Especially if they are from a seller in Hong King. They are CV4024 that have had the additional markings added to enhance value.Your best bet is the Mullard 6201 gold pin, which is the best version of that tube ever made, and one of the best 12AT7 ever made. They test superb. And are available.
Follow Ups:
Do you like the Mullard 6201 over the Sylvania Gold Brand 6201?
Cut-Throat
In the phono stage of my Tara Passage (Allen Wright designed) I like the Sylvania Gold Brand.In the driver stage of my Fisher 100 monoblocks, I like the Mullard 6201.
I obtained both pairs from Kevin Deal / Upscale Audio a couple of years ago.
They both sound wonderful for 12at7 types.
C-T,I don't know what Kevin feels, but the GB Sylvania 6201 and the 5-star GE 6201 are a couple of the best tubes I've ever used. They won't blow your sox off, upon first listening. But, they are quiet, consistent, and don't color the tone too much.
In some amps front end tubes which kinda "disappear" with listening time are the best. Ones that color or change the tone too much can get tiresome onthe ear, with hours of use.
Some of these old US made 9-pins (1950-60's) are some of the better tubes. Not as exotic as the European makes---but, work horses that last and sound consistently good.
Pro: quiet, abundant, not microphonic
Con: terrible sonicsThis tube sounds warm, opaque, dull, slow, and uninvolving. It has THE WORST reproduction of drums I have ever heard. If you bump your elbow on an oatmeal container, that's how the Mullard GP 6201 does drums.
The Mullard GP 6201 works where you need a quiet 12AT7 that can take abuse. I gave mine to my guitar-playing co-workers, who use these in guitar amps. They like this tube. According to one guy, if your Fender has too much bite, too much of a cold, cutting sound, the Mullard 6201 will give you swirling warmth.
The Sylvania Gold Brand 6201 is mightly excellent, much closer to neutral than many others out there. It has sharp, smallish images, which isn't exactly to everyone's tastes, and the overall sound can be small and "whitish." For larger images, and a softer but more full-bodied top end, go with black plate RCAs. For an average, across-the-board performer, find some Tung-Sols.
The ultimate 12AT7 is the Telefunken ECC801S. IF you want to know what a top-notch interconnect sounds like, but don't have $2000 for a 1-meter pair, I suggest you instead put Telefunken ECC801Ses in your preamp or amp. These go for about $135 each, which, while expensive for a tube, is much cheaper than equivalent performance from interconnects, anti-vibration devices, PLCs, et. al.
Be warned, however, that using neutral devices really only works in top-notch systems. In low nad mid-level systems, using a neutral tube like the Telefunken ECC801S only shows how mediocre your equipment is. Many audiophiles erroneously blame the neutral product, when, in reality, they should be blaming the poor-quality components.
I have a pair of Mullard 6201 in my amplifier and is the best tube in my opinion.
I make tests with various tubes, and the Sylvania and GE is include in this list.
My prefered is CV4024 Mullard and RFT 12AT7.
The Sylvania and GE I put in the trash, because is very bad...
Of the american brands, I like only RCA and Tungsol...
but it all comes down to system synergy. The Mullard 6201 or CV4024 is the #1 choice of Atma-Sphere owners (where you can hear a real difference and as a "lot" are pretty educated folks) as well as the Sonic Frontiers. They make more people happy in more situations than any other 12AT7 type.As to the Sylvania Gold Brand 6201 being much better, I have both in stock, and have sold both to a number of people, and the most common consensus is the Sylvania has a little more "pop" in the bottom.
My opinion of the Tele ECC801S is that though they are expensive, due to being rarer, that does not guarantee happiness. I try to explain that to people that want them just because we charge more. I got 'em...lots.
The worst 12AT7 ever made is the late 1950's / early 1960's Mullard and Amperex. How these got any reputation at all is beyond me. They test horrid, and if they are not noisy now, they will be. It is a frustrating tube.
If a Dodge Neon came with the Audi, BMW, or Porsche names and logos, I'm sure the perception of that car would increase.Within a brand, not all models are winners. While the Toyota RAV-4, Camry, and Corolla are leasdrs in their class, the Avalon isn't. So it's up to the consumer to educate him or herself. As you point out, the late 50s/early 60s Amperex 12AT7 just doesn't last. Yet, people continue to pay premium prices for it, because of the brand name.
The Mullard Gold Pin 6201s I've come across are as bullet proof as can be. I had some (untested and unmatched!) since the early/mid 90s. They're still going strong. I've stuck some in guitar amps, the Sonic Frontiers SFL-1, the phonostage in the CJ PV-10A, the Earmax, and VTL amps, among others. Not one has gone noisy or microphonic on me.
But we've never liked the Mullard's sound. The only time it worked was in the SFL-1 or PV-10A, when those preamps were surrounded with crappy sources, bad cables, cheap solid state amps, and budget speakers. At one point, we had a Sony CDP-555ESII, Sony D-10, and a Sumiko Pro-Ject 6 turntable -- truly awful stuff. The Mullard Gold Pin usefully tamed the sources' offputtingly bad distortions. 'Tis cheaper and better-sounding than getting an equalizer.
But in higher-rez systems, you'll need the Sylvania Gold Brand 6201, with its just-play-the-damn-song character. It has no problem tracking the opening to Rush's "Tom Sawyer," the awesome bassline to Phil Collins' "Sussudio," and the killer drumming on Sepultura's "Refuse/Resist." The Mullard GP 6201 reduces this music (and everything else, for that matter) to soggy oatmeal, and that's just sacrilegious.
But if you just need a quiet, tough, long-lasting 12AT7, the Mullard GP 6201 is the way to go. My friends and I experienced no hiccups whatsoever with this tube, even in VTL amps, which supposedly have a reputation for being hard on tubes.
L,There seems to be two types of Mullard 6201's. The ones I use are 1960's vintage. These sound pretty good. The later 6201/E81CC mil spec (1980's) sound like most other mil spec British tubes of the late 70's-mid 80's---very bad.
Probably, the Mullard "6201" is much like the Valvo and Miniwatt E81CC, of the 60's. To me, these are good tubes---though rather expensive now-a-days.
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