|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
In Reply to: Re: 7189s in Dynaco ST-35 - Ouch! posted by Ivan303 on July 21, 2002 at 07:44:16:
Ivan,If I remember correctly, the 7189A uses a couple pins (1 & 6) which aren't used in the EL84 or 7189, to help dissipate heat off the grids.
The 7189 & 7189A puts out more power than the EL84. Thus requires more voltage, off the PS. If your PS was marginal---plopping the 7189A into your amp probably caused the PS to fail (as you suspected).
You'll need to redo your PS. Reform it. And check the PT for rating. I'd only use the 7189A in an EL84 amp which has over-engineered PT and PS filter circuit.
Follow Ups:
Thanks for your input Steven. The tubes I put in were 7189s not 7189As but it looks like the result might have been the same. Could you explain what you mean by reforming the ps and how does one go about checking the power transformer on this beast.Sorry for the newbie questions but I only just recently completed a foreplay (and the auricap upgrades) and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed but enthusiastic.
thanks
Byron,To form new electrolytic caps, I use a Variac. But, a good idea is to use the old in-line light bulb trick, first.
First thing to do is replace the GZ34 (or any indirectly heated rectifier) with a 5Y3GT or a solid state plug-in type. All other tubes are in. Speakers are connected. Volume at zero. No inputs.
But before you begin, go down to the hardware store and buy an extension cord and a ceramic light bulb holder. About midway in the extension cord, cut ONE of the AC wires (black or white). Insert the ceramic light bulb socket, inline. Place a 40-watt light bulb into the socket.
Now, plug the amp into the extension cord’s female end. And the male end into the wall outlet. Turn on the amp. The light bulb should SLOWLY light up. If it goes bright immediately---TURN OFF THE AMP. You probably have a short between the amp’s AC input, the switch, the PT, the rectifier, and/or the PS filter circuit.
You’ll need to drain the PS caps (I use a 100 ohm, 5 watt resistor with alligator clips on both ends---clip one end to the chassis and the other to the (+) point or A+ point of the rectifier/PT.
If the light bulb lights up slowly, you can proceed to the Variac. Disconnect the amp from your homemade short tester. Plug the amp into the Variac. Turn the Variac up to 40 volts. If you comfortable with using a DVM probe in a live circuit, I’d check the VDC on the A+, B+, C+, and D+ voltages. See if their values are relative to the input voltage. If all seems reasonable, keep the Variac at 40 volts for an hour or two.
After two hours (or so), check those tap-off values, again (A+, etc). If they seem reasonable, turn the Variac up to 60 volts, for one to two hours. Continue this trend until you reach 120 volts.
Measure the tap-off values and the bias supply value (I suggest changing the bias supply filters and diode(s) at the same time, for fixed biased amps). The A+, B+, C+, and D+ should be within 10-20% of nominal value. But, more importantly the relative relationship between the tap-off points should be consistent.
The negative VDC read off the bias supply should be close to nominal value. This is the bias point for FIXED biased amp.
As long as the values as within tolerance and all seems well with the amp, you can go ahead and play the thing---once you’ve re-biased the power tubes.
Hi SteveThanks for the information. The light bulb idea is a good one which I will definately use. My Dad was trained as an electrican in the 30s and I remember him using a similar trick to test circuits.
A couple of things about the Dynaco which don't seem to fit in with your post - The St-35, I think, is ss rectified - correct me if I'm wrong. The tube complement is 4 - 6BQ5s and 2 - 12DW7s (7247). So can I just go directly to the lightbulb stage.
I don't mind doing live Voltage checks but I am not familiar enough with this circuit to know which are the A+ B+ C+ and D+ lines. Again I have only played with the foreplay so know the B+ circuit is the power circuit but beyond that I'm lost.
Any advice would be welcome
Bryon,You need a schematic to find all the voltage measuring points off the PS. If you have an SS bridge---you can go right to the lamp test.
Byron,Should have said, if the light bulb goes bright immediately, with the light bulb inline---you will need to fix the short. Be sure to drain the caps before hunting for the culprit.
After fixing---test the amp again with the light bulb inline. The bulb MUST slowly glow bright, before proceding.
A 60-watt, 75 watt, or even 100 watt bulb will also work fine.
The only time I recall using 7189A's in my ST-35, I watched the voltage across the cathode resistor and the PS voltages very carefully. IIRC, the pin in question is not used on the Dynaco ST35, at least on my system, but we must remember this is a kit amp, so anything is possible.Another issue is, while the 7189A is capable of more power, the critical issue might be "does the it draw more current in this particular cathode self bias circuit?" If it does, we are toast. If not, perhaps no problem. Again, IIRC, I kept close tabs on the voltage across the cathode resistor just to make sure all was OK.
If you look at the schematic of the ST35, it runs the EL84 at its max specified limit, perhaps even a bit over the limit. No problem, back in the days when Amperex EL84's were cheap and plentiful.
I have increased the value of the single 90 Ohm Sand Cast Cathode Resistor to about 12Ohms and have cut the plate dissipation of the output tubes by just a bit. Still sounds great, and hopefully those NOS Amperex EL84's will be with me for a while longer.
Additionally, the Dynaco ST-35 has a very under spec. power transformer that you can fry eggs and bacon on. This identical transformer frequently fails in the nearly identical SCA-35 integrated amp, just from the load of a few extra small signal tubes. I really think what happened, as described in the above post, might have been due to unbalanced quad, where one tube runs away and before you know it the voltage drop across the 90 Ohm cathode resistor exceeds the tolerances of the 35V bypass cap and KERBOOOOM!
Just a guess.
Ivan,Believe it or don't, I think that pins 1 & 6, in a 7189A are intended NOT to be connected to anything. The internal connection of 1 & 6 is just to draw heat off (like an internal heat sink) to the socket.
I believe that the 7027A uses this same idea, for unused pins of the 6L6 types.
I guess I was think more like the NOS 7189 and 7189A. Though I notice that the Reflector 7189A mil spec do demand more power than the EL84.
I presume (big WAG) that if the plate voltage is more or less constant---that the extra load demanded by the 7189A is done via extra current draw on the PS. Thus, the disaster.
nt
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: