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Hi to all,I recently acquired a quad of the new Gold Lion KT88 reissues and now have 50 or 60 hours on them so I thought I would post a report since there may be others interested in these tubes. I am using them in a custom PP power amp (Space-Tech Labs). The amp is running in triode with B+ of about 340 volts. This produces a glorious 20 watts or so per channel. Plenty for me, but I can't comment on how any of these tubes might sound in pentode with 500 volts on the plates.... Speakers are Joseph Audio RM25si mk2. Source is a Consonance Ref. 2.2 cd player (6H30 tube buffer), and a custom all tube preamp, with tube regulated power supply (also Space-Tech Labs). It's a very nice system. Not the absolute top end, but a fine system very revealing of any tube change anywhere in the chain. The system is very musical, tons of air, sound stage is a couple of feet wider than the speakers and floor to ceiling. Depth is also very good. I have tried the following in the power amp over the past 4 years: TungSol 6550 (NOS 3 hole gray plate), EH KT88, various Shuguang 6550's, and my main tube for the past year or two is the Shuguang KT88SC. So please don't ask me about any other 6550/KT88's as I have not heard them.
As I said, the GL reissues have about 50 - 60 hours on them now. Initially when switching from the Shuguang KT88SC I noticed that the GL's had tighter bass and were a bit more dynamic. The high end was a bit lacking, but I know from experience that power tubes need 50+ hours to open up. After burning in the GL's now have a wonderful airy, detailed open high end that is even better than the Shuguangs. They may get subtly better with a few more hours, but they are most of the way there now. I have played a variety of music (Jazz, Classical, some pop and rock...) All in all the GL reissue sounds more focused than the Shuguang KT88SC, they are noticeably more dynamic, and they have better frequency extension in both directions. Bass is definitely tighter. Images are slightly more focused. Midrange is glorious with both tubes. Hey, it's a tube amp.... To be certain, I put the KT88SC's back in and listened. They sound great. But when I put the Gold Lions back in after a few hours the difference was readily apparent. More detail, frequency extension, tighter bass while retaining the wonderful rich midrange. The music just sort of jumps out at you more, the sound stage depth is a bit better too. In summary, if I called the Gold Lion reissue my new reference and gave it a "10", then I would give the Shuguang KT88SC maybe an "8.5" - and I do really like that tube as it was my main one for a couple of years. The EH KT88 had a bit too much top end for me although it is also a good tube. The original TungSol 6550's are of course great tubes as well, but a bit too dry for me. The Shuguang 6550's are pretty good, especially considering price, but I seem to prefer KT88's in this system. I have never heard any other new production KT88's, and never the original Gold Lions/Genelex/GEC. The reissue is a very hefty tube that seems well made. Are they worth the money? Well, I got mine from Jim McShane. I don't need a matched quad, just a couple of pairs and he had two sitting around for about $199 for all 4. Don't know what he will be selling matched quads for, check his site. I think the ebay going rate is about $240 -250 for a quad. So at the $200 a quad I paid vs. $80 - 100 for Shuguangs and EH, I'd take the Gold Lions in a heartbeat. Of course, my system, triode, my ears, my room, and my wallet. These are the best output tubes I have heard in my system so far and they are worth it to me, and they weren't THAT expensive. Your system, who knows. Also, have never heard the various SED 6550/KT88's or the JJ's. So I guess I can say that if you have a system that is revealing enough that you can hear a 15 - 20% improvement in power tubes, and you've already rolled your smaller signal tubes up the chain, and you have the $200 - $250 for a quad of the Gold Lion Reissues I don't think you'd be disappointed with them. If you are on a tighter budget (or maybe you have a large amp that needs 8 or 16 tubes), try the Shuguang KT88SC, it's a great tube and can often be found for under $100/quad. Of course, I am not associated with any vendors, tube companies, etc... Just my opinion..happy listening.
cheers,
don
Follow Ups:
I tryed shuguag kt88 sc,and JJkt88 was better, but Luckly I received today four gold lion kt 88 ,and the sound became another , better than 50%, principal in low frequency, this will be my reference kt88 tubes. and I listend only for one houer maybe will be better...
I was using a set of the Penta solid plate Kt88sc's in my Cary Sli80, but recently had one of them die on me (about a year old). I switched to a quad of the KT88-98's that I had on hand (also from Penta) and I think they sound just good as the solid plates. I'm going to try a set of the Gold Lion's as well. Tube rollin' is fun!
Hi,
Please post when you try the Gold Lions. I'd be interested to hear everyone's opinion of the comparision with other modern production tubes in a variety of gear. I have no doubt that some will prefer other, cheaper tubes in some gear....cheers,
don
Good review! Thanks Don. I just resently pickup a VP 105 Space Tech Power amp to go along with my Preamp. I have some tubes from a friend to see how things work. Been playing around with a few different Quads of SED winded C 6550, Quad of GE 6550, Quad of Mullard reissue EL34, Solvak's and Shuguang and having lots of fun doing it.
I've heard Space Tech Hybrid many times and his set amps, but you certainly were right about his Push Pull amps.
Nice to know what other tubes might work well in my amp.Thanks
Ken
Hi
Well, I see from Albert's website that the 105 uses 8 output tubes. If so, retubing can be expensive! My experience with his amps is that the small signal tubes (in this case the 6SL7 and 6SN7 per side) will make more difference than the power tubes. Again, in a different power amp, the best 6SN7 I have heard is the CV181 (not a true 6SN7). You have to ask Albert if it will work in there or overtax the power transformer. The next best 6SN7 I have is the TungSol round plate. These stand above the rest I have tried. The best 6SL7 I have heard in his preamp is the Mullard EC35. Bar none -nothing can touch it. Of course all these tubes are absurdly expensive now. The best EL34 I have heard in his amp is the old Mullard (I have XF2's). Best current production was the SED from a few years back. Best 6550 has been the TungSol (original), but the Shuguangs are cheap and surprisingly good. Best KT88 has been the Gold Lion reissue and the Shuguang KT88SC is also very good as you can see from this thread. Of course, my system, my ears! Good luck!don
8 output tubes can be expensive! So I won't be hunting down any of the highend NOS tubes any time soon. I am finding a nice combo with 4 EL34 + 4 6550. Right now in the small signal tubes, I am using RCA 6SN7 VT 231 + Tong-sol 6SUL GTY (6188) and have tried a few others.
But I'll let things settle in and try some rolling again in the near future. The plan is to get a pair of ECC32 and or ECC35 Mullard in the future as Albert and everyone who has had them in Space Tech gear all agree on this. Think I should look more into some room treatments, it time. ThanksKen
Hi Benie,
My guess is that if you find a pair of ECC35 for that amp and then use any decent 6SN7 you will see a marked improvement over new production tubes. CV181/ECC32 have gotten absurdly expensive, but ECC35 can still be had for $100 or less per pair if you hunt around. So find a nice pair of Sylvania, KenRad, or some other nice 6SN7 and get the ECC35. Then when you win the lottery buy some CV181's!cheers,
Don
I have tried it with 2 pairs of 6SN7s and 2 pairs of 6SL7s and I find 1 of each to be the ticket. So putting the ECC35 in makes very good sence and for the best bang for the $$ also.
I guess I better start hunting, perfer not to go to ebay. ThanksCheers
Ken
Thanks for the great review, and in regard to the Shuguang SC's, there are reports here on the forum that the Shuguang KT-88-98's (the one's with the holes in the plates) are even better than the SC's, with a supposedly tastier midrange and better bass and dynamics. I'm in the midst of burning in a set of the '98's and we'll what develops.
Hi,
By all means, please post a review when you have them burned in. I really do love the KT88SC and would love to read another review comparing them because I have never tried them. I was quite happy with the smooth plates, but then got the bug..... You sure can't beat the Shuguang pricing!cheers,
Don
The Shuguang/Valve Art KT88-98s in my SLAM-100s were a bit dark and laid back, and I was never quite satisfied with them. I ran them with some KT88EHs to get some of the high end detail that the 98s were lacking (and some of the bass that the EHs were shy on).I got a set of the KT88SCs recently, and they were very much different from the get go. They sound great and have a taugter bass, better detail and much more extended sounding.
I would go for the SCs over the 98s again any day. For the price I dont think that they can be beat.
David
I guess we all hear things differently because although it's early yet I don't notice any darkness or lack of detail from the Penta 98's that I'm using with my Quicksilver Mini-Mite's, and in fact I've noticed an inner light in the midrange that's quite seductive. I'm finding that my listening observations so far of the 98's are pretty much lining up with what some others have posted here on the forum... I'll continue to let them burn in and see what develops.I will also say that I've had the opportunity to audition Cary SLAM 100's, and to my ears the overall balance of the SLAMs leaned toward being a bit rolled off and dark, so perhaps that's having some influence on what's being heard.
Good review, I was waiting this in the last weeks.
Don
Thanks much for the detailed writeup and Im glad they have a tube now to better the shuggie that we will be able to get without having to kiss someones fanny like at penta.
I want to ask how many hours do you have on the shuggies? If its considerable like 1000 hours,they may be worn a bit and that may be the difference in dynamics possibly? I dont know tho but I want to make sure that the test is accurate so we know the actual sonic differences.If its only 500 hours on your shuggies then you will be fine but Im going to throw a quad of the reissues in tonite..I bought 4 quads of them 2 months ago from NS.
If dealing with Penta is a problem then Doug's tubes (dougstubes.com) carries the Penta KT-88's and you can order them from Doug.
Thanks
They are a good tube and I got my first set 5 years ago from Ludovic pierson because he worked at penta and I abused and used them and they still sound superb..
That's exactly where I got my quad of KT88SC's. He was selling some on epay. As I said, after 800-1000 hours they still look and test as new. Great tubes, but do burn in those GL reissues and let me know what you think since you are essentially doing the same tube comparison in different equipment. I'm curious as to what you will hear.cheers,
Don
Many times you call and NOBODY answers the phone..You get a recording and they say leave a message and then they may or may not return your call.I had 4 people tell me this that I had to sent to them.
I had called them about it and left a message and they returned the call on the ans machine 3 days later saying they must have been at a meeting..RIGHTTTTT!!
They do have a fantastic tube tho and I wish more people could carry it.
...kiss LOTS of fannies.
-------------------------------------------------------
Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
Also they quoted me 3 different prices as a dealer when I called them.
Hi Mike,
I have somewhere around 800 - 1000 hours on the KT88SC's. I put them in my Hickok 600 and they still test as new. Again, my amp is running triode at about 340v so it is pretty easy on the tubes so I think they are still in the middle of their service life, but you know FAR more about tubes and equipment than I. I was still groovin' on them, but got that little bug to try the GL's. All that said, if you can get the GL reissues for a decent price I think you'll like them. Please let us know what you think! I will have to try the KT88-98, you sure can't beat the Shuguang prices and they are really well built tubes.
cheers,
Don
For what its worth- here's my take on several KT88s I've used in my ARC Ref 300 MkII over the past few years. Bottom line, The Shuguang 88-98's are the best overall tube in many important ways, namely, overall sound and even more importantly, reliability. Sourced from The Tube Store in Canada at $25/pair. I use matched octets if i can get them. I went through living hell using Valve Art KT100 version of these tubes sourced from Antique electric in Arizona. 3 failures out of 16 in 6 months. Blew a few tube power resistors. Not fun. Not fun at all. The sound was excellent but I cannot deal with the quality control problems. I've also sourced the KT 88s from VAC, and these too were superb but very expensive ($50/pair). I do not know the OEM but I think it is Shuguang also. Also sourced from Quicksilver. Gorgeous top end, less impressive in the bass that then Shuguangs. I won't try the Electroharmonix as they are quite bright. I'd be interested in hgearing some russin KT88's but the Shuguangs are so good, I am not motivated to do so.
Don
I know the gold lion is a great and I trust your judgement but to be really fair you probably have to have a fresher set of shuggies to compare.I realize the tester says they are good and for all practical purpose they are,but the tester cant put full voltage on the tube for actual real test and other parameters of the tubes may have diminished and that may be the difference you are hearing.Im not saying for sure that it is but it could be.
Mike,
Absolutely fair criticism of the experiment. Testers are just able to give a rough assessment of tube condition. I replied above, but please post when you have results of your experiment as I am curious. At any rate, I have a $200 quad of tubes I am really enjoying....don
agreed!
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