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This seller thinks all his 9-pin tubes are pinched waist tubes. First ones are obviously Amperex label RFT's.Here is his response to our e-mail (read the thread from bottom up):
I KNOW MY TUBES ,YOU DONT,DO SOME MORE RESEARCH AND IF YOU HAVENT SEEN ONE DONT BE ASHAMED TO SAY THAT YOU DONT KNOW ALL THE TUBES.
On 2/13/07, Tubemonger < > wrote:
Sorry, again, none of these are pinched waist tubes. If you don't know, do post a question on the following link so that people can educate you about pinched waist tubes and NOS tubes in general.
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/bbs.html
Tubemonger
----- Original Message -----
From: EZOVMXRZ
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Audiogon listing: Amperex/telefunken ECC83 / 12Ax7HI,HOW SURE YOU ARE THAT THESE TUBES ARE NOT PINCH WAIST,IF YOU OWN THIS TUBE BEFORE, WHICH I DOUBT IT.
On 2/13/07,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FROM: Tubemonger (a member)
RE: Amperex/telefunken ECC83 / 12Ax7TO: Realdeal
PAIR AMPEREX PINCHED WAIST, NOS IN BOX MADE IN GERMANY TUBE1)1800 /1850 TUBE2) 1900 /1950------$100.00
- FYI, these are RFT East German tubes with Amperex label.
And none of the tubes in the ad are pinched waist. Pinched waist tubes were only made by some of the Philips plants.
Follow Ups:
Poor fella--seems like he hasn't been able to pinch a loaf for a while, let alone a waist.
Yet, people pay incredible amount of money for them.They are the MOST MICROPHONIC piece of garbage tube ever made.
While they may have a tendency for microphonics and fetch probably
unrealistic amounts of money these days, when you find the right ones
they are quite phenominal. Almost like a Tung Sol round plate 6SN7- very musical.
Saying anything in absolute terms only proves your ignorance-
the most difficult part of assembling a system is synergy,
and sometimes that synergy might just involve a pinched waist tube.
some real Amperex, pinched waist 7062/E180CC? I think I can tell the difference: they look a little the condoms with the funny heads? Unlike the Phillips and Valvos I have which are just straight up and down.
Tubemonger =I e-mailed the same seller this morning before seeing this thread and received the same abusive, insulting comments. (Verbatim actually, which is even wierder.) Yet he was still trying to get me to buy them!
I notice too that he has his RCA "pinched waist" as being NOS, but the boxes clearly have been relabeled with portions of white stickers.
Is there a way to report this kind of stuff to A-Gon? I'm kinda thinking that they don't really care, but this guy just seems insistent on getting someone to buy into it and pay those prices even after numerous people have told him what the deal is. I'd hate for someone to get stuck that way.
..only thing they would be interested in are the revenues from classifieds.This seller really needs to get a clue instead of spewing anger.
I've been meaning to ask: have you found an alternative to Audiogon yet? I'm still listing my 6SN7s there, but the response has severely declined over the past year. And of course, I'm not a fan of their new rules/enforcement, so if you have an alternative website to recommend, I'll be in your debt :)
I don't know how useful to you these will be, but I frequently browse for audio gear at the following sites:http://java.audioasylum.com/ca/index.jtp
http://www.hificlassifieds.com/
http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/buysell/YaBB.cgi
http://classifieds.audioreview.com/index.php
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=a29d5de5a3bb1b2b8e58e9b0e183520d&f=58
We gave some feedback to this group working on an alternative classifieds site. They had the site ready to go online last fall but there were some questions as to the legal implications of membership rules on that site.Perhaps they should get feedback from asylum members on this issue. Shall check on the status and get back on this forum.
Hi ,
You obviously haven't seen the UK Ebay seller who has a used CVC Premium 12AX7 (Russian) going for £30 . It is described as being 'rare' and having a 'square gaiter' along with all his other valves . CVC sell these for £7 each new , LOL . There is just something very odd about people who write in block capitals , you've just cited another prime example ;)cheers
Currently, a pair of unused RFT 12AX7s is on Ebay auction from a guy in Bulgaria for $10.50/pair.That Amperex orange paint is quite costly!
tubemonger,The interesting feature of this is the rather raw kind of response which is from his perspective- a potential buyer. Anyone around tubes very long usually starts to understand the vast complexity of the subject and is not this rigidly defensive, but to be wrong AND rude is really unattractive. I always prefer being politely wrong.
I find the pinched waist an interesting construction feature. I have only a few pinched waist tubes: Valvo E80CF (6BL8) and I recently bought a pair of Valvo 6201s white label (1965)- and on arrival these surprised me by being pinched waist- all of the pinched waist 6201's I've seen before have been the blue label.
In accordance with your mention of it, I've never seen any pinched waist tubes except Philips made tubes from the early to mid 60's- and while I'm sure there are more I haven't seen, this is only three models: Amperex 6922, Valvo 6201, Valvo E80CF
No one ever talks about how these were made, but I assume a finished tube was rotated with a flame on the glass that was hot enought to start to soften it and let the outside air pressure bow the sides of the glass in- which is always reffered to as "locking in" the mica structure to reduce microphonics. Intuitively, I wonder how well this works as it seems to me it might make the transferrence of mechanical vibration to the tube structure actually stronger.
HEY REALDEAL LOOSEN YOUR BELT A LITTLE!
Cheers,
Also Amperex PQ 6939. 1959 vintage.
Hello Bambi B ,
I have CCa , D3a , E80CC , E83F , E80CF , E80L and the blue 6201 with pinched waist and some more , which I cannot find this time .
Regards , Alexander .
Alex K.,Well, I can always depend on seeing something new when you post. I have ocassionally seen pinched waist tubes of what I think of as less familiar types, but that is quite a line up. It's striking when seen in a row. I never thought of it unitl a frind said so, but the irregular shapes could look like errors to the non-initiated. Atually, I like the fact that each one is a bit different- this gives a kind of hand-made quality.
Do you know more about the philosophy behind the pinched waist technique? I assumed it was to lower microphonics, but as I mentioned to PureAudio, intuitively it seems possible that making a stronger connection between the mica and the glass may transfer vibration into the structure even more and making microphonics worse. But, I must be completely wrong!
Cheers,
Bambi B
Ps: Er geschieht, dass ich wuetend geboten habe, um ein Paar der beruehmten "geklemmten Taille" blauen Beschriftung 6201 zu versuchen und zu kaufen. Ich habe auf einer Gesamtmenge von Ueberschuss 10 der letzte Monat geboten und wieder verloren jede Zeit, selbst wenn ich biete, (was ich denke zuviel teuer ist), beende ich outbid oben.Aber,ich jedoch hatte ein wenig Gluek und WAR schließlich in der Lage, etwas 7316s zu kaufen- ich fand 8 Nr. Valvo ECC186. Diese sind aller kleine Halo 1965 eine und nicht die lange Platte, D-getter, aber ich denke, dass alle 7316s gerade fein sind! Ich habe schon einmal Bugle Boy 1961 und es scheint zum Valvos identisch zu sein. Vor einigen Wochen sah ich ein Paar der fruehen langen Platte eine, die je fuer $120 verkauft wurden- wahnsinnig!
Nachdem ich versucht hatte, den blauen 6201 fuer so lang, in meinem Tiefstand zu kaufen, kaufte ich zwei Paar des weissen Aufklebers Valvo und ich uebergebe den Roehregoettern, die sagen, dass ich nie diesen bestimmten Roehre habe, selbst wenn ich $45 je biete, der meine psychologische Begrenzung für einen Roehre ist!
Hello Bambi B ,
look here and the following postings , especially from my friend Micha ( mb ) , who knows nearly all about european tubes .http://f23.parsimony.net/forum45451/messages/167913.htm
Regards , Alexander .
... more of a novelty than an effective functional feature but I certainly could be wrong.
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