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In Reply to: Jolida vs McIntosh posted by benhen on February 4, 2007 at 22:32:08:
Most vintage amps have simple signal paths which also
allow space for upgrading to current available production
parts like power supply capacitors and signal path caps
(which by the way should always be replaced in 30+ year old
gear). Look inside a Pilot 232 for example- the shoebox design
allows for point to point wiring which is always good, there's
plenty of space for potentially larger new parts, the transformers
for power and output were made in the heyday which would cost
significantly more to produce today- all good starting points.A dynaco ST-70 doesn't have much space, but there's many aftermarket
kits readily available. And it will outperform most modern
economy amps without breathing hard. When you bring up old Macs,
the parts quality alone will push it way past the Jolida league.
No offense meant, just plain economics- even at the large prices
of anything older today, with proper upgrading they just plain sound
good and will be dependable. There are many forums for those with no experience to learn which parts to change and what to look out for. A leak Stereo 20 will not likely be a good cantidate in these examples, because it will require far more baby-sitting because of some weird design choices causing it to be more techie and less
trouble-free.Now, modern bleeding edge gear will likely be more linear and
clearer, but for the dollar, even a $1500 HK Citation II will
be a damn fine sounding amp by anyones measure. I've even heard
that Bob Carver uses (6) Citation II's personally (and he made
the venerable Silver 7's). I suppose that could be heresay.In any case, comparing Jolida, as good as they are for an entry level product, will be outclassed by most Mac gear.
Follow Ups:
If the old stuff sells for $500 and you can have it serviced for another $300 - it sounds better and is cheaper than buying a $1200 Jolida. Why would people buy the new stuff then? Aesthetics?
Compared to them, many of the Macs & Citations are a bit dowdy looking & don't have the remote that so many Americans demand.
I choose not to. I'd rather support current manufacturers
from the States or somewhere less insidious like England or some
of the beautiful products coming out of Italy.Citations for example are how privateers like Jim McShane
can make a living or support a hobby. Micheal Elliot of Alta Vista
is another person who's chosen to deal with equipment not made anymore.
I'd rather rebuild or buy parts from someone like
those fellows and support folks in the hobby on a less international level.I think while us Americans worry about remotes, we not only miss
the target on sound quality, I think we miss the boat on wisdom as well.
I love beautiful casework as much as anyone, I'd just rather
Bob from around the corner gets the profits.
Other than my Sony SCD-777es, my main system has a preamp made in California (VTL Ultimate), an amp made made in California (Innersound/Coda), and speakers made in Utah (Soundlab Pristine IIs) or in Maryland (Apogee Stage). Will admit my Gallo Nuc Ref 3s were built in China...but for an American company.
I didn't mean to imply any different. Nice gear!
We live in the good ole US Of A and it should just floor people that buy asian cars and asian electronics,how much asians are willing to pay for our 100% american made audio gear or amateur radio receivers like collins or hallicrafters.
I think they laugh at many of our buying choices all the way to the bank and think what dummies we are to have such nice well mastered equipment like macs or citations or marantzs and then sucuum to buying the crap many of us do.Give me vintage any ole time.
I almost asked the webmaster to pull that post, thinking
it wasn't in the spirit of the topic.One of the reasons I love the High End, even the Bleeding edge
is that I can still buy American gear. I still adore lust after and
appreciate gear from everywhere (how could you not appreciate an
Ongaku for example). However, I like that one of my pairs of speakers (Magnepans)are made 45 minutes away. One of my preamps
is made 10 minutes from my house at ARC. One of my sets of OTL amps-
30 minutes away. They, like the very best companies audio has to offer, will talk to you on the phone or let you stop by and say "hi".
That means a lot to me.I really don't mean to belittle or offend, it's just my personal choice. My wife found some fleece pullovers to buy me for Christmas
that were made in the US. Not a big deal, but it sure meant a lot to
me that at least she thought about it when shopping. Along that vein, my rather opulent choice of owning Hi End helped pay my own state taxes- Bob from down the road may have machined that fancy remote. Let's see, some of my cables may have helped pay for George Cardas' new boat!The music is what really matters, if a Jolida is your cup of tea,
ENJOY! Maybe you can buy some tubes from McShane...
Gumby
I guess we can thank the chinese and russians tho for resurrecting our vintage tube audio hobby.Think about what we would have to pay if it werent for the chinese building a nice kt88 and a 6L6gc and many of the nice gold connector jacks and tube sockets we use to rebuild our amps with..I would hate to think how much everyone would be fighting on ebay to get that last pair of used up mullard el34s with burnt flashing for 300 dollars lol.Thank god for our friends in the orient and in the former baltic states and ussr.
If the Soviets and Chinese hadn't spooled up production for
vacuum stste devices, we wouldn't likely be having this discussion
because the vintage stuff would be prohibitively expensive to
repair and maintain. High voltage caps would have ceased production
almost altogether and the old gear would be akin to restoring Victrolas (although those too are cool).I suppose we could thank guitar players and companies like ARC/CJ
as well for not letting the flame burn out and providing fiscal reasons for the new tube manufacturers to spool up new production.
Because most Americans want to buy new products and assume they are better than old gear without ever doing any research. Too many people are "scared" of vintage gear.
Ben
Its like anything..Many people want the security of buying new becuase it would have a warranty and its plug and play and many of these people dont have clue how much better vintage gear sounds until they hear it.Im sure asethetics play a role in the decision also.
If you look at the high end audio market of people that buy new,most tube audiophiles dont service or upgrade their own gear.To an individual lacking in technical prowess,the assembled new units look very attractive to them being they are plug and play.
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