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160.62.4.10
This topic has been posted many times I'm sure but may serve as a useful reminder that buying used tubes carries a risk (self-evident, but please allow me.....).A regular Ebayer with tube sales history."Name" tubes tested as working and rated -usually high in terms of operating condition but with disclaimer stating absolutely no returns. You rely on that test report and buy- you fit the tube and bang! (your expensive amp, not the tube). What do you do? Me- well, I never buy in the "used but tests good" market again.Any thoughts?
Follow Ups:
Most tube testers don't come close to testing tubes in real life amplifier conditions and some tubes that test great fail right off in an amp. I have a quad of EL34s that test great on my Hickok (great emissions, no shorts etc) but 2 of them fried the cathode or plate resistors immeadiately in any amp they are tried in. I bought them used from a ebay tube seller with good feedback and he would not take them back because they test good on both our testers. So it really is a risk buying used (or even new) tubes unless you are guaranteed you can return them.
On the other side, suppose that you sell good used tubes on ebay with a return guarantee and the buyers returns other tubes from his own stash with the same reference but defective. how could you be sure that the tube returned are those you sold?
Permanent markings would deface the collectible value IMO.
Mark it very discreetly with something, such as a pin. A dot can be placed on a tube so small that nobody would see it except with a 10X loop, and knew where too look.
Byrd
At least 5000 tubes later, I never had someone send back a different & defective tube from their stock asking for a refund. Fortunately, buyers would rather have the tube than money.I did have one buyer state one of two tubes tested bad when the tubes were new old stock. And, when I sent a new replacement, they stated the getter flash on one was slightly bigger than the other resulting in not being a matched set. Tubes had same date codes. Bottom line is they believed they paid too much. I just placed the headache eBay buyer on the blocked bidders list. When all tubes were received back, all tested perfect & were new as stated. That person may become a buyer that would send back a different tube.
means move on to another offering.
I've gotten used tubes that have been great - but a few that were terribly microphonic or crackled... truly buyer beware
The Decameron, hi. I read you loud and clear. It happened to me years ago with a pair of Arcturus blue globe 2A3 that I had to have.You have to Know the person from whom you are buying. I cannot stress this enough. All the yada yada about tested and working, measured, is negated entirely by the "absolutely no returns" earmark.
This says to me that this deal is a big time crap shoot.That said and because they have more internal structural mass power tubes must be properly packed to arrive undamaged. They have to have lots of cushioning to survive. Antique Electronic Supply ( to name just one vender ) knows how to pack and ship tubes. They nest rubber banded boxes deep in plastic peanuts. Remember, all it takes is one good mechanical shock to shatter a filamentary cathode or knock something cockeyed inside a beam tube.
Over time you can compile a list of Trustworthy venders. It is all about Trust - something seemingly anathema to e-bay.
Unfortunatly Ebay is the only way to get OS tubes at a decent price without spending alot of time going to ham radio shows etc. A tube tester is a must though. You have to test the tubes before you put them in your equipment. If your diligent you will snap up an auction here and there at a resonable price. I stay away from ads that say "as is" unless I can get the tube pretty cheap. Sometimes you get burned. So far so good (fingers crossed). You have to watch out for certain sellers though. Now buying from a reputable tube dealer is a good idea. Especially if you don't have a tube tester. But some of these guys charge an arm and a leg for the service (you know who you are). So it depends on what you want and how much you have to spend. A good tube tester isn't cheap. But it's fun to have one. It opens your tube world up a little more.
No it's not, but an OK one can be had cheap enough, and it will be good enough to cheak for shorts, gas, and whether there's any emission.Certainly good enough to know whether it's safe to plug them into your equipment.
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True. If you just want to check them for shorts etc tahn any tester will do. But it's nice to be able to match tubes. If you can afford it get a decent tester.
I want to relate a good ebay tube experience I had. I had aquired two matched pairs of GE weld plate 6550's and was really impressed with the sound in my ARC. They beat the OS Tung Sol grey plate three holes. But my amp failed and I red plated one of them. In the trash it went. I was going to try to buy some of the staple plates as cheap as I could. I won an auction for two of what I thought were staple plate. When I got them one was a weld plate. Both tubes tested like new. I was able to match the weld plate up to my other weld plates. I used the staple plate for my voltage regulater. My amp is back up and sounding like she did before the failure. A happy ending indeed! Sometimes you get lucky!
all depends-if they are real cheap it gives you a chance to hear the sound without lots of cash involved-
The scenario you describe is a recipe for disaster IMO.I have purchased lots of tubes off eBay, but never from the type of seller you describe. I purchase from the reputable dealers that sell on eBay, Ken Chait, Ed Sawyer, etc.
If one can get the sort of tube you describe for cheap, i.e. $5, has a decent tester, then sure, go for it. If the tube is junk then I am only out a few bucks and have not smoked my gear.
IMO the prices on eBay are much too high. I can do that well, if not better, from reputable dealers. Good dealers test their tubes and stand behind what they sell.
Occassionally there is a true deal on eBay and I jump. Less-and-less often since most of the stuff is much too expensive and of questionable quality IMO.
For the most part, I find ebay tubes cost much less than Audiogon and many tube suppliers. Now, some tube suppliers have excellent bargains & back up their products no matter what including horrid carrier handling.
Don't rule out buying used tubes! A new tube could fail the same way, it happens all the time. Just be sure you follow the advice in the other post - buy properly tested tubes from a trustworthy source.
What would you as a seller of tubes consider to be a fair guarantee/ return policy on "used" tubes?Not DOA? Return within one week if not happy? Other?
How about with new tubes?
I am curious because I really hate selling tubes. I want the buyer to be happy, but I do not want to get hosed. If I sold many tubes it would probably not be as much of a big deal (maybe?), but given the few tubes that I do sell (almost exclusively higher value tubes), I am not sure what kind of policy makes sense to me. Lately I guarantee that they will test good, show no shorts, will pass "life" test, and will not be DOA...
Thanks,
Rodney
I've sold many a tube with a no firlls return policy...if it does not sound good in the buyers gear due to their preferences, or it does not test as well as they'd like it to, or it takes a crap soon after they start using it.....it comes back to me. So far, I've had one tube returned, and it was an obvious failure of the tube....the vacuum let out somwhere.
Byrd
The problem is that these guys (like one big ebay trader who advertises "tests 68/68 on my tester, new valve tests 70" etc.)bring the whole industry into disrepute.They do this by saying "read the print no returns" after dangling the "my valve tester says..." lure.The bomb-proof positive feedback turns out to be hollow when you get a response to your complaint giving you friendly advice not to even think about leaving negative feedback because it will be "mirrored."
A big bubble then bursts about this method of buying.
Caveat Emptor.
If a seller says "this tube tests like new but is sold as is". Didn't he just say that as is, is a like new tube? I will fight a guy on this issue if it ever comes down to that. And it hasn't yet. It also depends on the money. I'm not going to spend alot on an as is tube. Or get my panties in bunch over a few bucks. But I think my point about "as is" is true. You can't say "I've tested this item and it is perfect" and then send someone a piece of crap.
Thats the point, out of the box that "tested" tube went bang along with my amp. When I informed the UKebay "valves" seller he offered to sell me a replacement which I declined naturally. His next response was couched in more hostile language including a well rehearsed "..and by the way, dont even think about leaving any negative feedback, I will respond in kind."
Along with "I'm a big palyer on ebay they wont do anything if you complain."
Strangely he claims never to have had a failure reported in over 2000 sales-only me!
Rodney,"What would you as a seller of tubes consider to be a fair guarantee/ return policy on "used" tubes? Not DOA? Return within one week if not happy? Other?"
Certainly not DOA - and I really look at most used tubes I sell the same way as new. If there is a problem with it I take care of it. Period. For how long? As long as the buyer thinks I should. The only thing I don't do is take back tubes simply because the user doesn't like the tone (as long as the tube is healthy).
"How about with new tubes?"
Same as above except for a few minor exceptions. Really I let the buyer decide what's fair. I treat people the way I'd like to be treated, that's all.
"I am curious because I really hate selling tubes. I want the buyer to be happy, but I do not want to get hosed. If I sold many tubes it would probably not be as much of a big deal (maybe?), but given the few tubes that I do sell (almost exclusively higher value tubes), I am not sure what kind of policy makes sense to me. Lately I guarantee that they will test good, show no shorts, will pass "life" test, and will not be DOA..."
Well, I invest a LOT of time and effort in testing, and I feel confident in what I sell. I pack well. I don't handle tubes that cause trouble. That said, I'd rather be hosed by a person or two who decide to take advantage of me than adopt a policy that could inadvertantly abuse some of my customers. The VAST majority of my tube customers have been wonderful people - so I want to do the right thing by them. They deserve it.
We agree in spirit. But I think your scale allows a different practice. That said, I test and retest tubes (different testers) that I sell and try them out in circuits when I can. I feel pretty confident that the tubes are good to go, yet, I do not have a tester that can match tubes at operating conditions (though I can do this in an amplifier). I certainly want the buyer to be happy because these things are not cheap, and I have a very good reputation with buyers (I pack VERY well and comunicate VERY well), and want to retain that. I basically tell them to try them out within a few days of getting them, make sure all is ok, and then contact me if there is a problem. So I am really using a moving scale. I guess I was looking for something more concrete and fixed. But I guess most reasonable approaches must be adaptable.Thanks,
You guys got nothing to worry about. Actually my first transaction with Jim got off to a bad start (due to a niave comment I made). But the truth is, he did allow me to return perfectly fine tubes because I didn't like the tone. I can't say that if he hadn't it would have cost him my future business but I can say that because he did (and other statements/reasons) I would always buy from Jim and advise others too as well. For example I can't tell you the number of times I have seen Jim talk people out of buying matched preamp tube because most gear doesn't require them. You have to appreciate a businesss man who is honest to the point of cutting into profits!Now with regards to you I only bought the one time and I knew what I was getting. The tubes had the tube tester results on them. The ones I have used so far all performed fine. In short, you delivered what was promised. Nobody can ask for more.
I would be inclined to say you won't get many looking for a return. If somebody does and you get hosed he will have a good tube and when he needs another he might just seek you out again and this time act correctly because he now knows for a fact that you are honest and sell good tubes.
... by locally (or long-distance) from someone you know and trust. You get what you pay for.
all the best,
mrh
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