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Hello all,JJ Telsa 12AX7 ecc-83's NEW,
compared to ecc-83 12AX7 Telefunkens used but test good.
Is there any sonic or performance difference?
And if so how much in your opinion?
Thanks,
Follow Ups:
Goes to show the generosity of the "Spirit of the Tunes".The information is appreciated and will be put to use!.
Regards,
Our Audiophile group had a shoot out recently using 3 new production and 3 old production "12AX7s". The hands down, no doubt, winner in this circuit, a Jadis DA 60 input pair. Was what Joe of the Lore told you 7 years ago, a Triple Mica Black Plate Sylvania 5751 next was a very well used Ribbed plate Telefunken 12AX7 and the next tube a Blackburn Mullard 12AX7 burned in but relatively new as it came from an excellent source in England who has an impeccable reputation from my extensive dealing with him, now my friends use him as well but he is a very small operation and I just can't say anymore. The newest tube was a Ei gold pin Elite 12ax7 which was eliminated immediately for excessive treble and lack of any tonal balance and weight, perhaps some additional burn in will help.
BTW all this was blinded except of course the tube changer. Remarkably the Smooth plate Telefunken was eliminated in the first round as well and it was definitely real because one our group bought a box of 100 in 1982 before the madness. It sounded dark too smooth perhaps,to the point of being dull and having rolled off highs. The ribbed plate was a pull and seemed to have the circuit wellcontrolled it was nuetraland clean but also had presence it showed off a little, the 5751 was a selected well tested multi auction assembled pair. One can argue that a 5751 is not a 12AX7 and of course technically the electronic parameters are different but a number of us use them. I had a pristine matched pair of GE five star TMBP 5751s to give to my friend and host. They were put in after the competition was officially over but the group listened intently and would have placed them 2nd overall.
The 5751 really is a finicky tube in terms of application, it simply does not work in some circuits but it works well enough that I have scrambled hard to assemble a reasonably large collection of them. I actually find that the Sylvania gold brand triple mica in a grey plate is inferior to almost any black plate that is older stock material. I am very cautious about using NOS even if a tube tests strong. I like the RCAs and Raytheons for the clarity and controlled bass. The JJ Tesla ecc83 was also eliminated but please don't generalize about the quality of all JJ tubes, I had a quad of EL34Ls last three years of solid use without a problem. They still make the sweeyest EL34L out there in modern production, IMHO. If you bought yours before the thin pin issue, which is being addressed they are midrange beauties. The KT -77 much maligned by Jim who I would never argue with most anyday is wrong. I got my quad very early on. The pins are the usual thicker ones not one tube has mica falling off and they are straight no tilting, and don't ring I'm just lucky I guess. Yes its a fabulous sounding tube.
The 12AX7 I am using is the Tesla not JJ 1982 Tele Smooth Plate clone nick named cross swords because they have them on the tube. It is phenomanally clean sounding and adds virtually zero coloration. I think these are indeed NOS but can't be certain. My tester has never seen a stronger testing almost perfectly matched pair- well above "new" on my recently calibrated MTC Hickok. I recommend them even though they are 80s production.
Finally for those really on a budget Shuguang has finally made a small tube that sounds good to me. The inmates may have heard me say it before but I couldn't stand the older versions for more than a few seconds. The 9th edition and the 9th only 12AX7 is a good tube. Not outstanding but very good and better than many many others it is an incredible bargain costing at most $5 a tube I even paid less for mine.
"The hands down, no doubt, winner in this circuit"Key words being IN THIS CIRCUIT. Wonder why that part is so often left out of tube comparisons?
"The KT -77 much maligned by Jim who I would never argue with most anyday is wrong."How can you say that? As you say below...
"I got my quad very early on. The pins are the usual thicker ones not one tube has mica falling off and they are straight no tilting, and don't ring I'm just lucky I guess."
You were darn lucky. I got yet another email about trouble with that tube holding bias just today. Even Mike Samra had trouble with the tube. I had many examples in hand that were a mess. I wish I had taken a bunch of pictures but I didn't.
Say you are lucky and I agree - and I'm very happy for your good fortune. Call me wrong - and I'll tell you why I'm not now nor was I.
I will carry the KT77 at the point where I can recommend it to my best friend. Right now I can't.
Sorry this is slightly O/T, but I felt compelled to respond.
so I am not sure how you could be "wrong" in this case. Given that you sell tubes, it does not make sense to sell tubes that run the risk of being returned.
Jim: I was a bit to firm in saying you are wrong. It has been my experience as well as several others that this tube is a good one. I don't buy wholesale batches nor did the number of aquaintences who bought them add up to a large number, thus statistically there is a sampling error or a "power" measure miscalculation.
I will rephrase my statement and say I was just lucky and Mr. McShane has every reason to make the claims he did and does regarding the JJ KT-77.
I have some loyalty to the JJ brand because I have used their products, in particular the EL34L with excellent results. I recently got the 12AT7 ECC81 which is good in terms of quality but not the tube of choice for me right now sonically. I don't think it fair that so many people have generalized the issues you've encountered in the KT-77 to the entire line of tubes by JJ. It seems that every few threads someone has something to say that is negative and are bashing JJ quality as a whole when I don't think they could be talking about the JJs I have had personal experience with.
Darrell,Tubes can sometimes be very picky about the circuit they're in. What tube might sound great in your preamp might sound so-so in someone else's pre.
I have a refurbished Pilot 402 receiver and the best 12AX7 I found for both phono and linestage is an early 60's Siemens round getter, short plate, with dual supports on the getter. Try some tube rolling to get what pleases your ears the most. Happy Listening!
You always hear me praise the new production output tubes and I even advocate that they are as good or better in some ways than the vintage ones. I cant however implement the same feelings toward the new production preamp tubes.I know they are getting much better but to me there is nothing like a telefunken 12ax7a/ecc83.The other one I like is the RCA 12ax7 black plate.
Go with the teles if you want accuracy,smoothness,and purity.The RCA does these things also but are much harder to find.
mike
ElectroHarmonix sound better than JJ's anyway. Compare them to the tele's
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If possible,try also the old NOS 12AX7 Ei,which is a good replica of the ECC83 Telefunken
The 12AX7 GE or Sylvania,5751 GE or Sylvania are good, also.
JJ Telsa 12AX7 ecc-83's :
maybe good sound but bad quality of manufacture
There are so many things that influence what you might hear in your place with your stuff that I don't think one can make a blanket judgement. All that can be said is what you liked in that setting.The Tele 12ax7 has the reputation. It is the benchmark. So while there may be lots of other NOS and current production 12ax7s, Tele is still the king by virture of its long term standing. Now none of this should be taken to mean the current asking price for NOS Tele 12ax7s is sonically worth it:)
thanks
"It ain't a comeback until it's left the shop" Jimmy Dunne, the first man to drive a VW Beetle faster than 200 mph, and he has the forehead scar to prove it; I will always honor him for taking a chance on me when I wanted to be an engine mechanic.
In short, I wouldn't. I would never pay hundreds for a tube that has no use to me. The 12ax7 may be one of the most popular tubes ever but I would never design around one.But if you are still interested in parting with some serious cash for a tube with no good purpose try Jim McShane. I strongly encourage you to buy used but strong testing (like 90%).
There are many other darn good 12ax7s that sell for a fraction of the price. Mullards are nice but almost as much. The right RCA and even Slyvania are just fine. And the Ei 12ax7 from a few years ago was a 5 buck tube brand new that had 90% of the sound....so why pay silly money?
...amp for the 12ax7's and the 12at7's and they appear to work fabulously, and the prices are very right! thanks.
"It ain't a comeback until it's left the shop" Jimmy Dunne, the first man to drive a VW Beetle faster than 200 mph, and he has the forehead scar to prove it; I will always honor him for taking a chance on me when I wanted to be an engine mechanic.
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